Local First, Personal Always: Selling Solo to Small Business Owners (with Robert Lock)

Brett Trainor (: 00:00

Hey Robert, welcome to the Corporate Escapee Podcast.

Robert Lock (: 00:05

Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to this, Brett.

Brett Trainor (: 00:08

Likewise, it's always fun. love having these discussions with fellow escapees and kind of digging into the journey because the one thing I found is no matter how many people I talk to, I think I've learned something new from every single conversation. So no pressure. We're not going to do that. But, you know, and the funny thing is too, in the old days when I started this podcast, I was really focused on who am going to have on the podcast? Right? Do they check these boxes? Do these...

Now it's like, I have a really good conversation with this person? Yes. All right. They're coming on the podcast. So, yeah. So we don't know each other that well. So I'm excited to dig into your business a little bit in your journey. So maybe to kick things off and then we'll go back in time, let the audience know a little bit about, your background, what you're working on now. And, we'll dive into it.

Robert Lock (: 00:59

sure. Yeah. My background is primarily in manufacturing and distribution. spent almost 30 years in, some version of those two, those two businesses, primarily in a sales, revenue capacity, you know, sales rep, leader, sales leader, VP of sales, and then took an interesting turn during COVID to take over the corporate supply chain for a five plant manufacturer.

domestically, I was the VP of sales for them. And then we were in the disinfectant wipes business. so for us, were we didn't sales was not a problem. But getting components was and so the leadership and ownership of the company approached me about taking over the supply chain role. Because we couldn't get the things that we need, we didn't have time or really even the resources at that time to bring someone in and train them and

do all the things. So they came to me as someone who knows the, knows the plants, knows what we do and understands our customers and said, will you take this on? It was absolutely, it really was amazing. and so at the end of COVID, I found myself kind of a, I guess a man without a country is sort of, is maybe a way to say it. I, I'm a sales professional sales leader.

Brett Trainor (: 02:15

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 02:20

there wasn't an opportunity to go back to that, but I really wasn't a supply chain leader as well. Like I couldn't have left that company and gone to another supply chain job, or at least not at the level I was at. And so I found myself as a bit of a crossroads and I wanted to get back into sales leadership and get back to work dealing and working with sales teams, growing revenue. And so I was introduced to an organization that I'm an advisor for now called sales acceleration.

we're basically, take people like me who had a good long corporate career, and help us get started in our own practice. So now my practice is about growing revenue, growing, significant companies and eliminating owner dependency. but with a real focus back in manufacturing and distribution. And it's been a, it's been a, honestly, a whole lot of fun. It really has been.

Brett Trainor (: 03:13

Yeah, that's awesome. Talking about right place, right time with the right company, right during COVID. You actually manufactured what the world needed. So yeah, and I also get the country with no home, but said the country for old.

Robert Lock (: 03:18

Yeah, yeah.

Robert Lock (: 03:32

No country for old men. Yes. Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 03:33

Yes, thank you. Yeah, I kind of ended that way a few times myself where you're just out on an island and you don't want to go back. So I do want to get into the sales acceleration piece of this. But if you don't mind, you know, I'd love to pick apart a little bit kind of that transformation, right? Once you realize that hey, supply chain, you know, was it you that said, hey, I'm going to go start my own

thing or what was, can you walk through kind of what your thought process was and how you went from, I'm running supply chain to I'm doing my own thing.

Robert Lock (: 04:04

Right. Right. So it was a relatively long process. I would say for me, it was a 18 months to 24 month type process of just where am I? What am I? Where do I fit? Where am I going? and with that came just things like looking for work. you know, and that's sort of where I found that I was suddenly not a marketable supply chain person, but also it's

Brett Trainor (: 04:15

Okay.

Robert Lock (: 04:34

I felt like you're talking about old men. it felt like maybe there was a, because I don't, I'm not gonna say ageism or they're people like, don't touch him. graduated from high school in the nineties. But it was more like, it felt to me like the, almost like the job market had changed out from under me in the seven or eight years that I had been at that one company. And so it was different. It was almost, you know, for me, it was, I felt like I wasn't connecting with

the either the right recruiters or the right end users that were hiring. And even if I had it, they were like, well, you're, you were used to be a sales leader, but now you're not, or you're not really a supply chain leader. You're just kind of faked it in an emergency. so I, I, at some level, I'd always wanted to start my own business, get in, get in my own practice. I didn't know what it was exactly life being as it was made, you know, the, the W2 job attractive, a lot of

You know, it was a good deal. but at the same time I was like, all right, well, I found myself at this crossroads. I didn't feel marketable from a job, seeker standpoint. some things, some positive things had happened in our lives, our family life that allowed me to take a chance and say, maybe this is the time we do this. and so I left a perfectly good job that

I might still be at if I hadn't, you know, it wasn't when I didn't get a buyout where I was like, Hey, you get this, you know, a year to figure yourself out, go start a business. was one day I was working and with a paycheck and benefits and the next day I wasn't. And that was, that was a scary, scary thing. lean very heavily on, you know, my wife has been an amazing supporter of mine through this entire experiment. and, you know, certainly couldn't have done it without that support without her and the family support, but,

Brett Trainor (: 06:07

Rise.

Robert Lock (: 06:30

You mentioned sales acceleration is like that helped really help me give me the confidence that, there is a model that someone that does what I do can turn this into a business. and that, that, that really helped me get started.

Brett Trainor (: 06:45

Yeah. And how did you find, because I do want to, I'm not familiar with, with sales acceleration. So I'd love to dig into, it like a franchise where they help you? But before that, how did you, maybe let's start with what they do and then we'll figure out how you got connected with them.

Robert Lock (: 06:59

Sure. Sales acceleration is a, we're officially advisors or licensees of their IP assessments, things like that. So it's not a franchisee or it's not a franchise, which actually was very attractive to me because what it allows me to do is to utilize their tools in different ways at different times. I can lead with them. can lead with my own business, depending on, you know,

what the need is or, but you also get a whole lot of support from them. For me, it was almost like, it was like a quick start guide, right? They had, they, they, they had a lot of the things that I think I would have gotten to eventually. Here's an assessment. Here's a framework. Here's, here's, you know, the, the logic and methodology I've been using for so many years as a sales leader, but it was ready to go. and so I was able to jump into that, get, get their training, get

their methodology understood and then go out and use it in the network that I was building, my B2B network, as it best fit without having to worry about, you is this exactly how the delivery should be for a franchise? I've never owned a franchise, but I know that it's far more restrictive than how I can operate in my market.

Brett Trainor (: 08:14

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 08:18

Interesting. So almost like the EOS model where they moved right entrepreneurial area.

Robert Lock (: 08:24

Exactly. Yeah. Entrepreneurial operating system. And they did, they, they flipped from that advisor model to the franchise model. And, you know, some people, it didn't work out for them as a franchise, whereas it was a great success as a, as an advisor model. there's no talk right now of sales acceleration doing that, although, they're actually owned by EOS.

Brett Trainor (: 08:27

system.

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 08:52

And, sales acceleration are owned by the same, small boutique PE firm. Yeah. Yeah. what I've heard, and again, I'm not, I'm not privy, but what I've heard is that when, when you get to a certain number of advisors, you almost have to go to franchise because they don't want to muddy their brand. And I, and I understand that. And just for, sales acceleration now is up to something like 220, maybe 230 advisors.

Brett Trainor (: 08:55

they are. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So is the ma-

Brett Trainor (: 09:14

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 09:22

in primarily the US, but also Canada and the UK. And I believe there's one or two now even in Australia. So pretty cool. It's been a very, very, it's been a great environment, great organization. So I'm very happy I was aligned, I am aligned with them.

Brett Trainor (: 09:30

Okay. Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 09:38

That's good. And again, you can do the research online. You can tell me what you're comfortable with from a cost standpoint. it reasonable, right? So was it, was it a one-time fee to join and then an ongoing, or is it more of a membership type of a opportunity?

Robert Lock (: 09:52

It's a, you pay for essentially the, call it a training fee, but essentially it's the franchise fee. And that's in line with other similar types of, you know, in line with what I know of EOS and things like that. and then you pay a royalty as you go. And so, and that's a percentage of your sales, of your revenue. So.

Brett Trainor (: 10:09

Okay.

on sales accelerations and type deals. So if you sold something under your own shield, then it's the royalties don't apply or they do. So basically anything you, interesting.

Robert Lock (: 10:20

It's correct. No, they do not. They do not. You're, you have the, you're allowed to segment and say, this wasn't, you know, say I was coaching a leadership coach or something, because some of us have different aspects, different things that we do. And, and it really wasn't a sales. was more of maybe helping an owner, you know, be more present, those kinds of things. I personally don't do that, but that's something that you could argue. Anyone could argue. Well, it's not really sales acceleration, even though it's

Under you have your LLC and then the sales acceleration would be more of a piece of that than, all of it. So.

Brett Trainor (: 10:56

Yeah, no, makes sense. I like the model. I'm definitely going to do some homework. yeah, so that probably got you up and running a little bit quicker than trial and error, right? And stepping out and by yourself. So how long did it take you to go from, Hey, I think I'm going to join sales acceleration to up and running and starting your BD activities.

Robert Lock (: 11:06

It did. It did. It did.

Robert Lock (: 11:19

So from introductions, you had asked earlier about how I was introduced to them. was actually a family member, my uncle, who was one of the first advisors in Canada. And he's about, he's a few years younger, older than I am. He's maybe 15 years older than I am or so and had a longer corporate career than I did. he was in sort of in that...

Should I retire or should I, but I don't want to retire. I want to keep working. So for him, it turned out to be a great practice. And, that really helped me because I remember in my training class with my other sales acceleration, trainees, there was about nine of us, think in our class, they're all looking, we're all looking at each other. Like, is this real? Like, is this a Ponzi scheme? Like what on earth is this? and you know, cause you have to pay your money before your training. you, you only get, you only get a few.

Brett Trainor (: 12:08

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 12:16

few conversations say, this thing legitimate? And so for me, I went in sort of with this really good feeling that I know someone that's doing this, that's successful in this, and that, you know, at least understands what I'm after and wouldn't steer me wrong. And so I had that confidence. So think I was like the, you know, the, the, person they all looked at, like, well, you know, a little bit more about this and everybody else is this legitimate? So, it gave me that confidence to get started.

And then from a timing standpoint, it's interesting. the, the process is pretty simple. Um, I would say that was at most six to eight weeks of a few back and forth, um, conversations. Am I right for you? Are you right for me? Very much like you would expect for almost a job interview. And that, at that point, honestly, they do a pretty good job of vetting they being sales acceleration.

just to make sure that you have the appropriate years of experience and that, and then from the time that I did my training, which was a full week, you go to corporate headquarters, which are near Indianapolis and you do your full week of training from that time to my first client for me was about a hundred days. And that's just over. They talk about 90 days, like 75 % of advisors get their first client in 90 days. And so,

You know, I, my informal research, just talking to other advisors says that I was sort of, I was kind of in the average. Some people, some people are making their deals during their training week because maybe they had another consulting business or maybe they had, you know, they already decided to do this months ago and had some things primed and were just waiting to get their license done before they did it. For me, it was different because I quit the corporate job and

Essentially the next week went to my training. I, I needed to build the right professional network for what I was now doing. And that was both, I'm to say really easy and really hard. And you're going to say, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Well, it was, I had a, had a, was very good at and still am very good at making the connection outreach.

Brett Trainor (: 14:29

I get it.

Robert Lock (: 14:39

with a message say LinkedIn connection with a message that makes someone say, I'll connect with this guy. This seems great. He seems like good guy. What I found. So that I grew the network from nobody, you know, whatever a standard corporate, know, certainly less than a thousand contacts, grew that on LinkedIn context grew that to what I feel like was a really good professional network. But first of all,

When you're, when you don't quite know exactly where your business is focused, the network can be a little bit random. Mostly I just knew B2B. That's like, got this guy and I need people that need to network and their clients sell to businesses. Like that was about all I knew. Now, kudos to sales acceleration. One of the things that really helped people like me with is exactly this. Here's how you do it. Here's the steps to take and, and, know, follow these rules. call it the six prong system. It's really.

It's a really effective way to build a network quickly. So that was great. What happens though, or happened to me because I, I had a lot of, I had a very wide, very broad, but very shallow network. So a lot of people knew me knew of me, but I didn't know them well enough to really get that strong back and forth referral. And so I found that even though I got my first customer quickly, it took me a long time to really feel that the network was.

strong enough to produce the ongoing referral system that I needed to grow my business. So I would, my first year or so was very much fits and starts. was devastating losses and followed by, you know, maybe a project, but not the right project, but at least it was a project, you know, things like that. there was a fair bit of stumbling around there. so

I guess that's what I mean by easy and hard. was just, it w what we say around the house here is there's some things you just can't short circuit. You can't make them know you, you can't make them introduce to your, to their best customer or client. They have to know you first. And so that doesn't happen on a 30 minute zoom. You know, you just have to, you have to find a lane and, and be present in it so that you're known as the person.

Brett Trainor (: 16:42

great.

Robert Lock (: 17:03

that does that in that environment before the referral network really starts to pay out.

Brett Trainor (: 17:09

Yeah, no, I get it. I talk all the time. like to it's not complicated. It's, it's, what is it? Not complicated, but it's hard, right? Or it's easy, right? That it's again, it's not complicated, but it's, it's not easy. And you've got to put the hard work in, order to make this happen. And did you find a lot of the folks? Cause again, the school of thought, and I always ask people, right? Is it through an existing network that you had a lot of folks or was it from

Robert Lock (: 17:17

you

Robert Lock (: 17:23

Right.

Brett Trainor (: 17:37

outreach into new folks and there's no one size fits all and I'm just kind of curious how you what did you find in that that first year?

Robert Lock (: 17:48

So I don't know if it was good or bad or smart or dumb, but I did not do a good job. And actually I'll probably tell you, I have not really done a good job with my, what I would call my personal or natural network. When I was first starting, it just didn't feel like the right network exactly for what I was trying to do. My old life was a lot of big companies, you my contacts were people.

you know, in, in supply chain or quality or, not, not the owners that I now needed to get in front of. I thought, all right, well, let me, let me just start from, let me just head down next six months. We're just going to build a network. so almost everything that I've that's come of that has been more from the new network that my networking activities than it had from any kind of personal network. And now that I've been at it for a couple of years, I'm trying to.

Circle back to who I think are the right contacts, you know in my old network try to build some familiarity And and really try to reconnect there with some And and just sort of see see how and where that goes and again some good conversations I I haven't landed new business as a result of that, but it's That's a bit of a long game there too because it's you know they don't they know me as

Brett Trainor (: 19:10

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 19:13

Either I was their sales guy or I was a supply chain contact. And now I'm saying, Hey, I started my own business and I can help. And same kind of thing. They have to know you in that role before they're willing to sign.

Brett Trainor (: 19:25

Yeah, no, so much good insights in there. And yeah, you're not alone in that. It's, I'm, lot of people, including myself are more comfortable when I was transitioning right out of corporate 25 plus years, all my contacts are up here and I know they know people that know people, but I was more comfortable just starting new, almost like starting a new life, right? And I'm meeting these new people and building a new network that will then start to provide the referrals as it starts going. But, um,

Yeah, but some of the purest networking people say it's all in your current network. And so what I'm finding is that we kind of talked about earlier, there's no one size fits all and there's no exactly right path. And I thought it was interesting that I kind of found the same thing when I left corporate, that it was mostly new contacts and new people. yeah, interesting.

Robert Lock (: 20:15

Yeah. Yeah. And some of that was for me, it was also by design because, in my career, you know, I was essentially commuting to the airport, especially, you know, the last seven or eight years of it. And so I didn't have a local network. so when I started my business, I wanted, I wanted to learn about, you know, the local community, local businesses that I was mostly flying over. And so because I didn't have a strong.

Brett Trainor (: 20:33

Okay.

Robert Lock (: 20:45

professional connections or network there already. Some of my, I guess, core philosophy was, all right, let's build this. Everybody says I'm in the Denver area. Everybody says the Denver community is amazing business community. It is, it's unique, it really has been a great community. the other interesting thing is that's grown. I still focus my networking locally, but I've now got a client in.

Mexico and opportunities in Florida. So it's funny how it works and grows and you know, it's actually been fun to watch.

Brett Trainor (: 21:21

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 21:24

I think you took the right approach. It is the long game and everyone wants instant gratification. Sometimes you do right place, right time, the right need, but it is starting to build in relationships. So it just, it does. And if you're willing to be patient and you got to put the work in though, that's the other thing. People, especially folks that have been corporate for too long, right? They, got conditioned to don't rock the boat. Don't make mistakes.

Right? Overanalyze everything. And then when you're in this world, it's the exact opposite. You got to experiment. You got to have more conversations. You got to push it a little bit. And so once, once I find people break through that wall, then all of a they're like, I see it. Right. And then they can start going after it, but it's that early period. So a lot of what I'm telling people now is still in corporate. I'm like, go find that first deal.

Robert Lock (: 22:10

Right, right.

Brett Trainor (: 22:19

Right. Even if it's a dollar, go sell that while you're there. Cause it just changes the framing of it once, once you get started. I, and I also am a huge fan of the local. think all of us could build our solo businesses purely on local markets. Well, it's opportunistic with other things coming in, but unless you live in rural Iowa somewhere, and I'm not picking on Iowa, but they've even got some businesses there that you could probably support or help depending even.

Robert Lock (: 22:28

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 22:48

what you're doing, so.

Robert Lock (: 22:50

Right. Right. Yeah. No, like I said, that was important to me was to kind of build, build a presence locally. and, and. You know, like I said, it's, follow where it goes from a network standpoint, but it's, I think with, with the work that I do and the work probably with the work that so many solos or consultants or advisors, do that personal in-person connection is really vital. and.

You know, deals that I've been close on and maybe didn't get one of the things I look back on, said, well, did we make that personal connection with the owner that we needed to? And if the answer is no, it's why. Um, and oftentimes it's like, well, I was only talking to them on zoom and on the phone. so was it a great opportunity? Sure. Uh, but, but was I able to make the connection that I needed to, have them say, yeah, you're.

We want you to take over this part of our business that we've never given to anybody else before in our history. Like that's a huge thing. And that, like, that just doesn't happen because you're wearing the right suit. You know, it's, it's, you have to make that connection. And that might be one of my biggest learnings from selling in my old life to selling now is it's, it's incredibly upfront and, and personal. really is.

Brett Trainor (: 23:53

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 24:12

Yeah, I think the way I was leaning towards exact words you said it's personal. When it was B2B, it was more business, right? They've got budget. You've got to go. can follow all the traditional, but man, you start working these smaller businesses. It's highly personal and it's relationship driven and those types of things. So good insight. I do want to go back and get one of your, maybe a tip or two from you. Cause you mentioned that you kind of figured out quickly how to network and get people to connect. And maybe there is no secret sauce to it, but

Robert Lock (: 24:27

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 24:41

Just kind of curious, what was some of the outreach that you're doing and how were, let me ask you in slightly more tactical way, were you and your outreach just saying, I'd to get connected, learn about your business or words there, hey, I'm working on this X, Y, and Z, would love your opinion. What did you find worked pretty well for you?

Robert Lock (: 25:02

So the first thing was to try to, the best that I could at the time was try to understand who I needed in the network. And I, I utilize my LinkedIn, LinkedIn Navigator at the time. I utilize that to find the right people to build a referral network. I was not prospecting, not at that time anyway, I was not prospecting for end use clients or leads. It was all about.

I'm building a network. so with that approach, I did a couple of things. I tried to get my LinkedIn looking good, be active on it, all those things, because those people, when you reach out, they're going to look at you. The first thing I'm do is go to your LinkedIn page. I would tell you LinkedIn's far more important than my website. know, exactly for my life. it's probably not true for everybody, but for what I've been doing, anyway, so the, so my first outreach was always some version of.

Brett Trainor (: 25:48

website.

Robert Lock (: 26:01

You know, I see we have mutual connections. If I didn't, I wouldn't lie. Like don't lie. Cause it's pretty easy, verifiable. but you know, some version of, see we're connected to several people mutually. I help companies with, with sales and revenue problems would love to connect, learn more about your business and what you're doing. Leave it at that. If they connected, and by the way, I'm doing this not through in-mail, not through, you know,

but doing it through a customized connection request basically. And so if they connected, I was seeing about a 20 % connection rate, which I thought was pretty good when I was doing this heavily. so if they connected, then I'd wait about 24 hours. I never wanted to do it right away, but about 24 hours. And then I would follow that up with, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Great to be connected here.

Brett Trainor (: 26:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robert Lock (: 26:57

we'd love to have a coffee or virtual coffee to learn more and see if, if, or how I could be a resource for you in your network. And that probably led to something around, you know, 10 % of the total, would, so about half of the people that connected with me, I was able to get a coffee or virtual coffee with, and maybe it's not quite half, probably eight to 10%. so I was pretty happy with those numbers. I was doing the, we had.

again, sales acceleration gave us some resources on how to do it without getting flagged as spam. some people hired companies to do that for them. I never did. And my logic there was. If I was going to outsource this item, this function, I, I want to be good at it first before I outsource it. So I wanted to learn it from the inside out. Bless to be honest with you. I can say I just quit a perfectly good job.

Brett Trainor (: 27:48

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 27:56

But it wasn't in the budget to outsource. had plenty of time because I had no business. So I was like, all right, why don't this is the business right now is building this LinkedIn network. And so every morning was like, I was religious for about 120 days at least, you know, 18 to 25 connection requests a day, um, work that list every day, delete your old, like if someone, you if you have hundreds of people in your old connection list that you've outreach to, but they haven't accepted.

cancel those, recall them or whatever the term is because LinkedIn's algorithm is going to flag that as, well, this is clearly a bot because they're doing all this outreach and they're not cleaning it up after the fact. So we'd clean it up. in any case, then that created that. then within the meeting, within those first meetings, it was very important, again, not to ask for in any kind of a...

Brett Trainor (: 28:33

Robert Lock (28:52.929)

pitch slap way or anything like that. was just about building a network. Hey, I'm trying to build my network with EOS implementers, marketing managers, CFOs, whatever it is, and try to come away from every meeting that I had with two or three introductions to other partners. Exactly. That was key to me. And at the beginning, I wanted to offer some kind of value. didn't, I wasn't going to be a referral network for them, meaning I wasn't going to be introducing them to owners yet, but what can I do?

Brett Trainor (: 29:06

New names, okay.

Robert Lock (: 29:22

What can my network, can I help you? there anybody that I could introduce you to? and then the other thing I did early was I wanted to know every networking group that was potentially an option for me in Denver, or, know, locally, some of them were virtual as well. then if it sounded like maybe the right group, visit them, meet some people, make a couple of connections and then kind of keep that going. And so.

After the first four to six months, I was able to back way off that kind of introduction request because I was filling my calendar, with new, coffee, virtual coffee meetings, breakfast meetings, things like that. So that was a very effective way for me to grow the network and build the network. And like you said before, it's just putting in the work. It was, again, we're not, it's not digging ditches, but it's, it was for someone who'd been a sales leader for

And not a, and not a boots on the ground sales guy for a long time. was like, man, this is like bat, right? We're right back to the beginning.

Brett Trainor (: 30:26

Yeah, it's so true. I'm guessing that's where the majority of the actual business owners your future clients came from was through those networks,

Robert Lock (: 30:38

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And certainly, you know, picking the the right networking groups to join, making sure you're aligned with them. I was able to do some, some talks and seminars, which, know, for me was just a great way to get my message out there, but also to be, you know, to try to become known a little bit in the market as an expert in all things sales. And so, and that helped, that helped a great deal as well.

Brett Trainor (: 31:07

and promise not too many more tactical questions, but these are the ones I get all the time. So I figured I'll put you on the spot a little bit because as now you're with these business owners and you've got some alignment, was your discovery meetings more or did you know what their problem was as you're meeting with these business owners that you ended up becoming customers or kind of walk through? Because again, most a lot of the folks coming out of corporate have never sold before.

Robert Lock (: 31:14

Nah, I love it. I love it.

Brett Trainor (: 31:35

And all of a sudden they're having conversations with business owners and it's super uncomfortable. And it's, you just got to have more of them. know that's the, the long, the short answer, but you know, what, what were you finding success with meeting with, with business owners? and this could be over time. I'm sure you got better, right. As you had more conversations.

Robert Lock (: 31:40

Right.

Robert Lock (: 31:54

For sure. Yeah. The first thing I would say is the conversations with business owners are precious. And, you know, if you came from a life where you were clients were finding you or where you were, know, where you had some sort of a kind of an easy obvious sale, then, you know, these owner conversations are different. And again, very, they're hard to get.

And it's hard to get their attention. It's hard to get them to focus on you for even 30 minutes. They got a million things going on. So that was my first learning is like, these are different in almost every way than my old meetings were. tried to, I always try to handle it from a very, I guess, high level, know, 50,000 feet kind of thought, tell me about the business. How'd you get here?

You know where, where, and where are going and try to get that owner talking about not just what I'm there to know, but really just in general. And I always felt like it, it meant a couple of things. One is it. I do need to, and want to understand the whole picture. and in order to, help them the best that I can. And sometimes the answer at the end is I know I could help you, but you're not ready for it. You don't, you know, you're.

maybe this isn't the time. Unfortunately, sometimes that does happen where you're like the back of your mind, you're saying I can fix half of the things that are driving you nuts, but you're never going to accept it. so, but in, in general, for me, it was important to kind of understand the, the, the whole scope of the work, where they came from, what they've done and where they want to go. And then try to drive that down a little bit deeper into maybe the reasons that we were introduced. you asked if I knew the problems generally.

someone, if it's an introduction, whoever's introduced you has said, they have this huge problem, whatever it is, X, Y, or Z. They, they just lost their biggest customer. Their sales team's a mess. What I learned the hard way a couple of times actually, is that pretend you don't know that. Cause if you go in there, exactly. When you go in there and you like, yeah, Jimmy told me told me that you're, this is a mess and you don't know anything else.

Brett Trainor (: 34:04

Yeah, yeah. I learned that the hard way myself.

Robert Lock (: 34:17

You're probably, their information was probably maybe directionally accurate, but you know, when you get into the nitty gritty, you know, it may, it may not really be the problem at all. So you don't want to make too many assumptions. You want them to tell you, bring it out of them, get them talking. And that, that alone will help you understand what their issues and challenges are, but also help them open up about it, which they don't get to do a lot.

You know, these owners can be very isolated. They, often feel like they're the only one that can solve all of this stuff. And so you may be the first person they've talked to outside to try to help them fix whatever it is. and so it's, you know, getting them to open up about themselves is, is really, really important, to help build that trust between the, between the two of you.

Brett Trainor (: 35:12

Yeah, so good and so true. think, because Ben there done that right? Because if you accept the problem, but face value, you talk to the business owner about the problem you heard, they'll validate it. But once you get into the business, you realize to your point, that's one piece of it. But yet the biggest root problem and everything else is over here. And then, yeah, you just ended up on a part. So 100 % get the full picture. And one more.

Robert Lock (: 35:34

Right.

Brett Trainor (: 35:41

tactical question along this line. And again, for me, it's always evolving, but I love to get different perspectives. So now you've heard the business owners problems and challenges and you know, you can fix or help in a certain areas. Do you go in like, hey, here's my offering? Are you tailoring? Hey, here's how I think I can approach it. We can do it a couple of ways. I'm just curious, what's your approach to presenting a solution?

Robert Lock (: 36:06

So it's funny when I, when I first started, I tended to go big. And what I mean by that is, know, you have our discovery conversation. There's, there's almost always an assessment as well. That's part of that where you're getting feedback from the owner and leadership team. And in my role, you know, I'm getting, or my position, I'm getting feedback from salespeople or sales leaders. And so you've got some, at that point, I've got some information about what's going on, but I still don't really know.

what's hidden under the, you know, in the, in the secret factory is what we used to talk about when we were running, running plants. so, when I first started, I would say, all right, I think that this is at least a 12 month, maybe even a longer project because you need structure and you need CRM and you need all these bits and pieces that are going to make your sales system work the best. And that's going to take a long time. And then I'm going to lead it. And so

Here's a huge project with a three page scope of work and a really big number. And I didn't always put the big number upfront. I, you know, I'm fractional. So my, get paid monthly, but didn't take long to do the math to be like, wait a second. This is a, this is a huge, scary thing you've just put in front of me. And I was losing business as a result because what, what I think was happening, I almost know this. It felt like work. It looked like work and it seemed like it was expensive.

And, but I also, like I said before, I also didn't quite know where all the bodies were buried yet. So I've changed that over the last year or so, and I've had more success with this route. And that is all that work still needs to be done. It's all the same work that needs to be done. But I break it down into maybe more manageable sections. I say, the first section, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to do a deep dive called discovery.

going to take us a few months. We're going to ask a lot of questions. We're going to have a lot of back and forth and that we're going to have X, Y, and Z output. At that time, we're going to decide, you're going to decide if you want to go together with me. And I'm going to decide if you're, if, if, if you're right for my business as well, because again, I, before I just didn't know, I was just kind of guessing and putting a big number in front of them. So now we go through that process. And then at the end of that,

Robert Lock (: 38:27

All right. Well, here's what we uncovered. Here's where we should focus. Here's maybe the next 90 days, right? And then we look at the next 90 days and maybe that's their infrastructure build or some sort of, maybe it's put in, put these pieces in place, hire and hire someone to come work in the business. And, and by doing it that way, it became more manageable for the client. It didn't feel quite as scary. And it allowed me to take the burden of it from them instead of saying,

Brett Trainor (: 38:42

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 38:56

here's a million things I think you should do. I get to say, let's uncover what the problems are for real. Like let's really spend some time on this, spend some money on this, by the way, this is not a free engagement. These are paid engagements. and we're going to get to the end of that and we're going to have a plan. And then I own that plan unless you don't want me to. And that's okay. And everybody gets value. Everybody gets, gets, I get paid for my work.

They get value to go away with if they do want to do it themselves. And I feel like everybody wins in that, in that scenario. Most of the time it leads to a longer, deeper engagement that, you know, again, delivering value for the client is probably the most important thing. but it also, you know, it's everybody we're on equal footing. We understand the challenges we've agreed on what's next after a deep, deep discovery. So that's been a far more effective method for me. So.

Brett Trainor (: 39:47

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 39:55

Yeah, I like, think it makes sense and it's building and I found that too over time in the early days, chasing the big engagements, but breaking it into manageable pieces, right? It's I've avoided some longer term contracts that would have been bad, right? So just, weren't the right fit and we found out after, you know, 45 days versus, you know, locked into something. So, no, this is awesome. I'm trying to think, I want to be respectful of your time. It's flying by. Is there.

Thinking about talking to others potential escapees still sit in corporate Any advice anything that you would have done differently is any parting wisdom

Robert Lock (: 40:38

Yeah, so I think the.

I think if this is something you're thinking of going to, don't do anything that would violate your current contract or that would be unethical in your current business. what can you do? You mentioned it before, like get that one, get that first one. What can you do to be ready for when you make the transition? if I'd have thought it through, I would have.

done some digging locally on what is the network? What do you know, who should I be meeting? And then started some of that just to try to get the, get, get the ahead of the curve a little bit. the, that'd be, that'd be one thing, do what you can do to start. But I think maybe even more important is if, if it's something that you really want to do.

Robert Lock (: 41:29

You know, make sure, make sure you have, give yourself, an on ramp to build it up. Cause it is, it is hard. it takes time. The revenue doesn't just start flowing because you hang a shingle. but you know, do it. I mean, it's like, I, I, I'm.

Brett Trainor (: 41:44

Right.

Brett Trainor (: 41:49

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 41:53

I went from a very steady benefits paycheck bonus at the end of the year. Like we did all those things and I was unhappy. And now I have none of those things, no security whatsoever, except what I'm bringing in. And I don't know that I've ever been happier and I, and happy isn't the only thing, right? It's not just, Hey, let's all be happy and have a party.

But it turns out it's really important, especially when you feel like you were maybe not valued where you came from or the term I use is stagnant. I can't believe how stagnant I was in that life and how much I was, I've always been a reader, but it's been more mysteries and novels and things. now I'm reading now, you know, I'm reading two books at a time and people say, you got to read this. we're grabbing that and we're reading it and it's.

I get to pick my marketing plan for the next, however long I want. And I get to do all these things that sure. It was nice. We had a marketing department. Someone did the marketing. I didn't have to do it as the sales leader, but in my own business, it's mine. I get to do it. And that's been a lot of fun. and no, there's no one to fix your computer when it dies. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, but it's, like I said, it's been, it's been incredibly.

Brett Trainor (: 43:05

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 43:12

Yeah, no one's come to save you, that's for sure, but...

Robert Lock (: 43:20

Rewarding and I'm still building. I'm not where I want to be in any way shape or form yet. I'm in fact I'm my business has taken a Maybe even since you and I last talked You know, I've now got my I've now become a certified planning advisor. I was probably working on it when we met and I don't even know exactly how that's going to affect my business But all I know about it is it gives me credence in that market You know gives me some some street cred is

Brett Trainor (: 43:36

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 43:50

They say in the movies, I don't actually talk like that. but, uh, but it, yeah, exactly. I don't even think the kids say that anymore. Uh, but for me, it's like, all right, now I want to be known in that market as someone who understands that, but also the methodology there to help these owners build a significant company that is transferable is, is huge. And it turns out that's a, that's a big part of how I already thought. So

Brett Trainor (: 43:53

As I say, the kids say, as the kids say, it you a cut.

Robert Lock (: 44:18

It really fits nicely with how I go after my, and try to help the owners of the companies that I work with.

Brett Trainor (: 44:27

So, I mean, it's so true. Cause I tell people long time listeners of this will know I, when I left corporate, was to make more money, right? I just want to replace that income. man, pretty soon, two years in, I started to optimize on happiness, right? It was people, you know, it drives my wife nuts. Cause I'll walk around the house singing and she's just like, stop that. Right. I'm like, do you forget what it was before when I was going through the motions and stagnant and not happy and couldn't figure out why I wasn't happy. So.

Robert Lock (: 44:38

you

Robert Lock (: 44:49

Right.

Robert Lock (: 44:53

Yeah, yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 44:57

No, I a hundred percent get, what you're saying. And I agree. I love that idea of starting to build the network while you're still there. It doesn't cost you anything. You can share with people, Hey, I'm thinking about starting my own thing. There's no harm building. And yeah, I think that's start having those conversations, building those relationships. It'll give you, it'll get you there quicker. So, and you just to even further play off of, cause you said you're not sure where the exit planning piece will go.

Robert Lock (: 45:19

Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 45:26

I did just a little bit of a, it wasn't a deep dive analysis, but looking through my five year journey, I added up, it's 14 different ways that I've monetized my corporate experience. But when I started year one, it was only one way. was consulting, right? By year two and a half, then I threw in some fractional that I was doing. But now you're throwing coaching, content. So again, I'm not telling people to go a hundred different directions because chasing too many shiny objects doesn't work.

And it wasn't that I was doing to just kind of, it was like a stream. was pointing me in a direction and I just kept following it. And it's all a bunch of little experiments. And of those 14, half of them, I would have gone bankrupt if I had gone all in on any of those, those paths, but it generated income. So there's, there's paths for everybody. It's just not one size fits all.

Robert Lock (: 46:05

Yeah.

Robert Lock (: 46:12

Right.

Robert Lock (: 46:18

Right. No, you're absolutely right. And I, you know, for me, the other, the other thing I learned along the way is, you, you worry about the most important thing next when you're getting started, don't worry about the 14 things. You you started this for one thing, get the one thing, and then that's going to lead you naturally through a trail of, of success and failure, um, to get to, know, and then it does grow into those other things. And I guess that's what I mean by.

Brett Trainor (: 46:31

Let's get that one.

Robert Lock (: 46:46

You the learnings in this have been incredible. It's just been, um, you know, Hey, that didn't work. I'm going to change everything like that's, and you get to do that in your own business. So.

Brett Trainor (: 46:48

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 46:54

Yeah. Yeah. mean, I'll tell people I've learned more in the last five years than I probably the last 20 combined just because it re-sparked the desire to learn. started by doing a podcast and then opened up all these other things. I read probably as much as you do now and it's across the thing. So it's just, it's a different life, but it is yours, right? The good, the bad, the ugly and...

Robert Lock (: 47:19

Right, right.

Brett Trainor (: 47:22

But again, I tell people I'd rather control my own destiny than be showing up to work and saying, is this the quarter that they cut? Then I've got to go find back into that job market. That has changed. And ageism is absolutely real. That once you rather, again, you mentioned earlier in this conversation is about somebody that actually valued what you do. Right? It's refreshing. anyway.

Robert Lock (: 47:46

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 47:49

All right, Robert, I really appreciate the time and the insights. And if folks out there want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to find you?

Robert Lock (: 47:58

Probably simplest thing, find me on LinkedIn, Robert Locke. My company is Buffalo Mountain Sales Strategies. And like I said, I'm based here in greater Denver, Colorado, and would love to connect with anybody in your audience.

Brett Trainor (: 48:15

Awesome. And we'll put that in the show notes, of course. again, there's some other topics that we didn't get to that maybe we'll do a part two, because I do want to kind of explore the niche that you're looking at, like the exit planning to somebody else I talked to is looking at ESOP businesses and there's family owned, there's a bunch of different ways. maybe I'm thinking of pulling together a small panel of folks that are doing some interesting things and have a discussion. So if you're up for it.

I'll keep you marked and we'll bring you back in.

Robert Lock (: 48:48

That'd be tremendous. That'd be fun. It sounds great. I've enjoyed this. It's been fabulous.

Brett Trainor (: 48:49

Cool. A lot of value in here. I challenged you up, kiddingly, but yeah, you far exceeded what we're looking to do. appreciate the time. No, that's all right. It was well worth it. So, all right, Robert, appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day and we'll catch up with you soon.

Robert Lock (: 48:58

Sorry, we went over time.

Robert Lock (: 49:09

You too, thanks.