Nail Your Messaging and Master the 6 Questions Every Client Will Ask w/ Tom Freedman
One of the biggest challenges GenX escapees face after leaving corporate isn’t expertise—it’s business development. How do you find customers, create clarity in your message, and grow without getting stuck in trial-and-error mode?
In this episode, I sit down with Tom Freedman, a lifelong entrepreneur who has built six businesses and now helps solopreneurs and small business owners design simple, effective growth strategies centered around relationships.
We dive into:
• Why most escapees waste time on “shiny” strategies that don’t move the needle
• The Three-Headed God of Growth—marketing, business development, and sales—and how solos should prioritize them
• Tom’s SAM framework (Solution, Audience, Message) and how it fuels growth
• The 4 Cs of messaging: Clear, Concise, Compelling, and Consistent
• How to handle the six questions you’ll face on every discovery call
• Pricing strategies that balance affordability for clients with sustainability for you
• Why clarity and consistency in your message is the #1 growth driver
Tom doesn’t just share theory—he lays out practical steps you can apply immediately to land clients faster, refine your message, and build a business you actually want to run.
And yes, we already teed up Part 2—where Tom will come back to break down how to consistently get in front of the right people.
Connect with Tom Freedman:
• 🔗 LinkedIn: Tom Freedman
Transcript
Hey Tom, welcome to the Corporate Escapee Podcast.
Tom Freedman (:Hey Brad, really appreciate you having me on, I'm excited to be here.
Brett Trainor (:Now I'm excited because again, we talked offline. of the biggest challenges that escapees and future escapees have is business development and growth. And I really like when we connected, liked your approach to basically growth through relationships. And I think there was so much learning for our audience. So that's why I'm so appreciative of you taking some time and basically walking us through how we should be approaching this.
But before we get to the really, really good stuff, I think it's important to give the audience just a little bit about your background, what you're working on today, and then we'll dive into it.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, sure, no, I appreciate that. So, Brett, I've been an entrepreneur pretty much my entire adult life. I've had six different businesses in multiple different industries and worked with a lot of different folks.
as clients as well as, you know, different partnerships. So I got to like a decent amount of exposure in the small business space. What I'm doing today with the company that I've had over the last seven years is really working with small businesses, whether it's solo, micro or small businesses to develop a growth strategy that's really simple and easy to use. And I think that the biggest problem with a lot of folks
in today's world is that there's just so much stuff thrown out there. It gets very confusing as what is important and what is not. And so what I watch people do all the time, and I'm a victim even though this is what I do for a living, is getting caught in these traps where you're spending a lot of time and money doing things that really don't move the needle or aren't nearly as important as you think.
So we have a company that like really focuses on leveraging relationships in a very intentional way so that you can just focus on what matters, get the clients that you want, but at the same time, you're building a very intentional and powerful network.
Brett Trainor (:So good and it's so true and that's one thing that I one one I learned after I escaped about five years ago, but even in the larger B2B world, You know, SEO and search are fine long-term strategies, but like I I'm convinced that partnerships, relationships, referrals is the quickest path to growth, but nobody ever really talks about that, right? It's not as fancy and as technical, but you know,
Am I wrong in that?
Tom Freedman (:No, you're not wrong. And there's nothing right or wrong about any of the strategies. I we look at the, let's say the three, three headed God of growth, right? The three headed God of growth is gonna be marketing, business development, sales. So the question for anybody, whether your business is still in ideology, meaning that it's in startup phase, it hasn't even really kicked off.
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:you
you
Brett Trainor (:you
you
Tom Freedman (:all the way to a very, very mature business, right, is you're always exploring where should I spend my time, money, and resources in each three of these buckets. And then the last question is, well, how do they sort of work together, right? Because if they can't work together, then like you're really gonna have some wasted time, money, and resources as well. So let's look at each one of the buckets. Let's go marketing first.
Brett Trainor (:you
you
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:There's no right or wrong for marketing. Everybody needs marketing. You just gotta define what that marketing is for you. So let's say you're brand new startup, you are bootstrapped, and you're a service-based business. Your marketing may just be, well, what you tell other individuals when you meet them. You know what mean? That may be your marketing is the messaging behind like when you shake hands and give your business card or whatever you do nowadays, that could be the extent of your marketing.
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:Whereas somebody else in a different business that's very much more mature than that or has deeper pockets or a complicated business, well, their marketing strategy may be, you know, they may be imploring, I mean, who knows what, right? SEM, right? Like tons of Google ads, like who knows? So the first bucket is what is my marketing? What matters? What can I afford? What can I leverage? Right?
Business development is the human to human piece. Business development is like marketing where you're trying to get attention and bring leads into your business. It's not sales. It's a lead generation strategy. It just so happens that we call leads in business development world, we call them connections, introductions, and referrals, right? So marketing generates leads. You know what I mean? Business development develops
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:connections, introductions, and referrals. The last envelope that we need to open here is the sales and go, what is my process? What do I do in the whole sales process? How do I make it streamlined so that I can have people that are interested in my products and services quickly convert to clients? And if they aren't clients, what do we do to recycle them back into the marketing and business development so that nothing goes undone? In other words,
You don't waste time with a connection introduction and referral just because they're not interested in your services. They have to be recycled back into your network in a way that brings about more positivity or more growth, more productivity in not only your world, but theirs and the people that you introduce them to. Marketing, same concept.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, makes perfect sense. And I think too, when we talk solos, right, there's three, the three headed monster, but it's in our case, probably one headed, right? It's got to be all tied together in the sense of where are you going to spend your time on those three pieces? No, I like, I mean, again, I've always thought about, you know, sales and marketing, it's bigger companies, it's siloed, which is still so dumb, right? I mean, it just, it's got to be aligned and one approach to customers.
can spend an entire episode going with a bigger company. back to the Solos. Yeah, I bet you most of us hadn't defined either those activities or how we were thinking about. Maybe we think about content, right? Or what are we doing on LinkedIn? I love the human to business development. think that's where I don't want to guess, but you're going to tell us that's where the majority of our time should be spent is the business development and the human to human and the contact. And would you say sales is?
Um, cause again, from, uh, people that have been in court for 25 years, sales is a four letter word and literally is, but in this case it's, you know, I don't know how to sell. don't want to these things. And it's really just right. Asking for the business and more closing. maybe how would you define those three, that three headed monster for, for solos?
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, solopreneurs are gonna look like this. At first, most solopreneurs are not going to have the bankroll to take a lot of risks in like actual marketing strategies. So the marketing bucket looks like this. Messaging, right? Like, and I'll be a little bit more clear, it's actually what we call as a fictitious person called Sam, right? It's your solution, audience, and message. Here's what I mean by all three. If Sam's healthy,
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:you will have a healthy growth engine. If Sam has a problem with his head, body, or legs, you will have a problematic growth engine, right? So let's look at the solution. Just because you know what your core competency is, your solution doesn't mean that it's bundled properly for the next part of Sam, which is your
audience, that's the A. So you've got to understand who your target audience is and continue to re-engineer and repackage your solution so that it really clicks with the audience that you're trying to resonate with. And that may take some iterations for a lot of folks, right? But trying to get those to align is fantastic.
But then we go to the best sword that you'll ever have in the fight to get your company to grow. For soul openers, message is king. You must have a message that is, and I'm gonna bring this down to four Cs for your message. It must be clear, concise, compelling, and consistent.
I'll go through all four. Clear, do not use words that people do not understand. Use basic, everyday language. That's what people want to hear. You start to get too cute with your language. People will literally disassociate with your entire message completely. The next one is concise. That is what I call the shut up rule, right? Say it and then shut up.
People that have confidence issues or have problems with their message say too much. The people that have really, it's really well rehearsed, know what they can offer, say it, say it confidently, and then wait for the follow-up. Right? So we got clear, we got concise, and then the hardest C is compelling. This is where you have to start to actually make yourself and the person just a bit uncomfortable. Not
Tom Freedman (:sensational, needs to be compelling. Compelling means it must provoke more questions. It must elicit some type of emotion. Sensationalism is just saying things just to get attention, and I do not agree with that ever. The last piece is going to be the, consistent. Go ahead.
Brett Trainor (:I was gonna say, can you maybe give me an example of what you mean by compelling? I think it would be helpful.
Tom Freedman (:absolutely. Yeah, compelling piece again is the hardest piece, but so you're going to have to say things in a way, your message in a way that makes you sort of like shift in your seat a little bit, right? Or like sort of like scratch the back of your neck, right? Focus on somebody that you'll see like their head turn and that they're actually thinking about what you just did. But most people's message is to vanilla.
Brett Trainor (:Okay.
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:They use safe language. don't elicit emotion and therefore nothing happens. When you meet with somebody through a connection introduction and referral, right? It doesn't mean that you have to force your stuff on them, right? But you have to do, you do have to say your message so clear, concise and compelling that if they actually do need your services, they will ask. There's a difference. It's not a forceful sale.
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:It's a clear concise and compelling message. So compelling right Brett would be like the difference of saying something like this. We'll use your hat as an example, right? Look, Tom, tell me a little bit about what you do. I appreciate that Brett, right? We've got a company that sells hats. We've got all kinds of varieties of hats. So if you're interested in hats, come please check out our hat company, right? not that compelling.
You know what mean? A compelling difference would be this. Look, there's a ton of different hat companies out there. We actually took a stance with our hat company, right, to create these unique hats that nobody else has. In fact, we make fringes on all the hats that nobody has in the exact same spot and numbers them underneath.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:that is custom to every single person that we send it to. So if customization is having something that's unique, where you can wear on your head whenever you want, start new conversations and know that no one else in the world is like you, our company is probably the one that you wanna look at, right? Completely compelling. And now somebody sort of shifts in their chair and goes, I know hat companies, I don't know your company, right? Very different.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah. And I think what I like about that too is, again, back to that uncomfortable piece is when people are just getting started doing this, it's okay to filter out, right? You're non-buyer. So in this case, you're looking for those folks that like the different, right? That have the custom piece to a bit. And so if they're not, again, you don't want, it'll save you time the more clear, right? The old riches in the niches.
but I don't think we ever articulate that very well, right? So who within this space you're going after, where that's important to them, it's gonna resonate when you have that conversation, right? So I think, I just think that makes a ton of sense.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, without a doubt. And there's very few people, Brett, that have created products or services that are good for, like, the general public, that work really, really well for the general public. So, like, you as a solopreneur just have to say this. I'm not saying that I am never going to work with anyone else, like, outside of the target audience that I've defined. And this is, by the way, different than niching down. These are two different subjects. It's...they...they're parallel, but, like...
They're not the same. What I'm saying is this, you must define who the target audience is out there that you can best serve and is also very accessible, right? Meaning that like as a solopreneur, you're not gonna have a big budget, nor do you have a ton of time and everything else.
You don't have the luxury of having long sales cycles or that you have to meet 552 people before you get a yes. Like you need a business that's simple and an accessible audience that understands what you're offering, really needs what you're offering and respects and values it. Now you just have to make that choice in the beginning and tell other people very confidently why you made that choice and why it's the best fit.
as your company starts to evolve, you may start to evolve with it, right? Start to add more people to it. But in the beginning, it's always a mistake to try to please everyone. Focus on what you do best because all you need is a couple really good thumbs up, some good case studies, you know what I mean? And the rest is history. But if you keep failing in the beginning and struggling and you can't really...
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:get like good referrals or references or like build case studies, you're gonna have problems, really have big problems.
Brett Trainor (:So maybe just to give you one more example, because I do think this is an important part that we struggle with is, you know, I talked to a new member yesterday and she spent, you know, 20 plus years in the corporate world working with businesses and partnerships, right, for their growth engine, using partners as a growth engine. And one of the things we talked about was if she's going to do some outreach, right, it's as simple as, man, do you use growth and argue you use partnerships as one of your growth strategies, yes or no, right? And if they say yes,
then you're like, that's great. How's that working for you? And if it's no, why not? Right? And then I think that fits into your compelling, right? Where you're asking, someone's not just asking about growth or just not asking about your business, but it's a very specific piece. Are you using this? Yes or no? So would that fit kind of in your example?
Tom Freedman (:It does. And even more intentional than that, Brett, and I'm glad that you brought that up, more intentional than that is that like there's a big umbrella of partnerships. You know what I mean? Like for that person that you're referring to, you have to ask this question, right? Like, what do you know best? What can you say? Like, if I met this person and they leverage partnerships, like I'm sure I can help them out.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, okay.
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:because of the industry or the types of partnerships, whatever that is, is definition. But taking the time to define it and going, for now, right, these people are my people. I can help them. Don't say yes to opportunities that you stand a big chance of failing, despite what some of the thought leaders will tell you of like, just say yes to it and figure it out. That's not a very good strategy. Like,
Brett Trainor (:you
Yeah
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Failure will crush your business. It's okay to fail and learn, you know what I mean? But don't fail intentionally in the beginning when you don't have to. Make smart decisions and at least reduce or mitigate your failure as much as you possibly can.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, so good. All right, so duly noted on that, because think that's, to clarify, that was important for this audience. So I appreciate you spending a little more time. All right, so I cut you off before consistent.
Tom Freedman (:no worries, no worries. So consistency is the last piece, right? Consistency means this for most solopreneurs, right? Despite the fact that they'll get most of their business or connections, introductions and referrals, right? Somebody's still gonna check out your stuff before meeting you. And that could be before, during or after they meet you. What do I mean by your stuff?
Brett Trainor (:you
you
you
Tom Freedman (:Well, depending on what business that you're in, right? Is it your LinkedIn profile and your website? Right? Is it that they went to like your Instagram? Like, I don't know what it is, right? But they're gonna go to your stuff. And if it's out there, you must be consistent. What do I mean by consistent? The exact same language, the exact same colors, the exact same everything so that you can build
that trust with anybody that you're meeting, right? If there's inconsistency in your messaging, they start to lose faith and start to lose trust in who you are as a professional. Right? So like, if people ask me this all the time for solopreneurs, right, Brett? Like, should I have a website? I don't know. Let me figure it out. Like, let's talk about it for a second. But what I would say is this.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, makes sense.
Tom Freedman (:If you are having a website and it is out there, at least make sure it's consistent, right? Like at least do that, right? Otherwise, if it's not consistent, take it down. It's doing more harm than good. Social media, same thing. You know, we see this all the time too, Brett, on social media where people don't understand what their message is, their core message.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Right? And what they'll see is like random posts about things that yeah, it's like in their space, but they're randomly posting about different topics and then they think that they're going to get something out of it. But if you're going to like actually brand your services as a solopreneur on, let's say a social media platform, you're literally saying the same message over and over and over again, just in slightly different ways.
So like take for instance myself, right? All of you, like my message is all of your clients are coming from connections, introductions and referrals, right? All I'm saying is like, I'll do a post that say, look.
Research says 92 % of all small businesses get most of their clients or get all of their clients through connections, introductions, and referrals. So I use this statistic. You know what I mean? The next time I'll say something like, in the beginning, I was stretched thin in my business of doing A, B, and C, only to find out that all of my clients came from, ta-da, connections, introductions, and referrals. You know what I mean? I'm just recycling the message and saying it over and over again, consistently.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brett Trainor (:And in clarity, right? think that was back to you is the number one destroyer of trust. because it's complicated or inconsistent. Again, keep it simple to your point. Your message is crystal clear. Anybody's looking for it. They're going to know exactly what it is. And I think again, the tendency and what I blame corporate is teach it throw all the features and benefits and all the services that you have. And again, one of the things I found is these business owners tend to care more about the problem.
than the services and things. So the more you talk about and how you talk about it in all your content, just, again, it makes sense. And it seems like it's redundant, but that's the point. Because so few people actually see a piece of your content anyway that you just, again, I think it's worth repeating how important that consistency is in doing this.
Tom Freedman (:Yes. And like, look, I keep going back to me, but you do the same thing and everybody should do the same thing as a solo opener. What you really want to dumb it down to, if you're going to do like social media or something like that, is you want people to like literally think of you this way. Tom, the connection introduction referral guy. You know what I mean? Like that's what you want to get it down to because people don't have the capacity beyond that. Right. Like we're just such a small sliver in everybody's life.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:that we're nowhere near as important as we think we are, and it's not as impactful as you think it is. So you have to dumb it down to its simplest element if you wanna get any traction as a solopreneur. Now it's different if you're Nike, you know what I mean? Or Under Armour or something like that. But as a solopreneur...
Brett Trainor (:Great.
Brett Trainor (:Right.
Tom Freedman (:scapey, you know what mean, hanging their own shingle and doing their own thing. Consistency is so important in any of those strategies.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah. And it took me a while to figure that out with the escapee, right? mean, my message is simple. I've worked with GenXers to help them get out of corporate and take control of their life. Everything else is some combination of that mission as we do it. And there may be specifics, but it all filters back into that same messaging. You know, there's times I'm tempted to expand that to, you know, into the small business world. And I haven't been, I haven't posted it.
ton of content on that because I want to make sure it's consistent with what I'm saying. if I, if I do something with a small business world, it's going to play off of, how do I take all this escape the expertise, right? Which we've been talking about escaping and then help small businesses with that expertise. So in unintentionally kind of following your advice and it's worked once I was able to
Tom Freedman (:Yeah.
Brett Trainor (:get consistent with that. mean, it can just reinforces what your message was, but I did see the traction and the engagement goes up once you get more consistent with it for sure.
Tom Freedman (:Well, and I love your brand, right, Brett? mean, the escapee brand looks like this. There's two forms of escapees for me. Like when I look at your brand, I go, there's the escapee that is escaping from corporate life and getting into entrepreneurial life.
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:one escapee, right? The second escapee is this, how do I start escaping the business that I built so that I can actually get another life? There's two escapes there, you know what I mean? And it's vital, right? I mean, it just depends on where you are in the process of that whole ordeal, but that's what
Brett Trainor (:Right, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:happens. That's the whole cycle, right? I want to get out of jail, you know what I mean? From the corporate life only let me get out of there and do my own thing. Now that I have my own thing. I'm also seeing that I'm not in jail anymore, but I'm still stuck to this business, you know what I mean? Which is better than jail, you know what I mean? But the next freedom piece is going well, how do I build this business so that like, I really have
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:tons of time, flexibility, you know, do whatever I want.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah. It's so interesting. said that again, the last month or so started to dig deeper into kind of what is that, messaging and, cause when I started, it was really about replacing the income. Right. And what I've realized is it's still foundational, right? You need to replace the income or some level at what makes sense for your life and what you're trying to build. But then it opens up everything else, right? Which is a new world. So I'm staying consistent and say, Hey, first step is
maybe uncomfortable, you may be doing some things you don't want to do in order to replace that income that you need, but it unlocks everything else, right? So I think just, you know, as you're using your framework, mine's just, I've gotten smarter. I'm starting to learn more. I can expand and then build out on those four buckets as it gets clearer to me, you know, who my target audience is and what's important to them as I go through it. but I don't think you, like I said, I love this framework.
Tom Freedman (:Hmm.
Brett Trainor (:for folks just starting out and it may change, right? Test it. The messaging doesn't work or it gets lost and it's clouded with 400 other people doing the same thing, which would be rare. It knows it's a signal that, you know, to tweak and experiment with something else.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, and Brett, I'll add to this, right, for your A-B testing, right? The only way you can A-B test is you have to strategically deliver a message. So in other words, like you can't A-B test something that you're constantly like changing every conversation. You actually have to write out your message strategically, deliver the message, and then take note on it of how it landed. You know what I mean? But if your message keeps changing every single time, you get no feedback that's useful.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:So make sure that you try an A-B test and it's very important to constantly play King of the Hill and find which one is best. But you can't do that unless you actually deliver a clear, concise and compelling message that you at least think is going to work. And then you literally just get a handful of folks that like try it on, get the feedback, see what happens and then you can tweak it, right?
Brett Trainor (:Right, right, right.
Tom Freedman (:The last thing that I'll bring up and this is a huge help to me and so many other people out there and that is I hate to use a sports analogy, but if you're a golf person, right? Deliver your message like you're playing 18 holes of golf, right? And not at a driving range. Here's what I mean, right? Your message should say this, say something, shut up, right?
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Like say it, then wait for them to like ask more questions. Just like if you're in a golf cart, right? You can chit chat all you want back and forth. But when it's time to get up to the tee, everybody just needs to quiet down so that you can hit your shot. You know what I mean? Cause we're going to get back into the cart, right? When you deliver your message, do the same thing. Hey Brett.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Tell me a little bit about what you do. You say a very clear, concise and compelling statement right there, but then you just stop and you just wait for me to like ask something else in return, right? Or maybe we're just okay with just a slight bit of discomfort. You know what I mean? In just that little period, then you can go to the next one, right? You can state something afterwards that says something like this. And by the way, most people that I work with,
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:are A, B, and C. Then stop. Just give the other person a chance to absorb it. Ask other questions. Right? How does that work? You know what I mean? let me tell you how it works, but I'm not going to go into a 45-minute soliloquy. I'm going to literally tell you how it works as a general statement. Right? If you're interested in learning more, you'll ask more.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:You know what I mean? So don't worry about trying to solve all problems with your message. Think, how can I say something that will provoke more question and answer? And then your A-B test works like this. Some people A-B test and literally say they signed up as a client or they didn't. So it worked or it didn't work. That's not a good way to A-B test. A good way to A-B test is you said your message,
Brett Trainor (:Yes.
Brett Trainor (:Great.
Tom Freedman (:And did they inquire or ask more questions? Did they sit forward? Were they paying attention to me? Right? If that's the case, you're on the right track. If they, if you say what you, whatever that message is going to be and literally crickets, there's nothing there, no interest, no follow-up questions, no nothing. Your message is off. You've got to go back to the drawing board.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, so good. And it's so true. And again, unintentionally, probably would have been helpful to have your framework before. I've gotten better at doing those pauses, right? When people, what is the escapee? How'd you get started? It used to be me just doing a three minute, how quickly can I get through it? Now I figured out how to chunk it a little bit, right? And judge the reaction if they've got questions already or if it makes sense. In some cases, they don't care, right? So another two minutes is just wasting time.
Tom Freedman (:Mm.
Brett Trainor (:in the sense that it didn't land right the way I thought it would. And so, yeah, again, trial by error and figure things out. But I think that makes sense, not just spit everything out and then wait, but be patient. Easier said than done, but it does work if you can do it.
Tom Freedman (:100 % the good part is this this has like this is all codified right bread I mean the good thing is you don't have to memorize eight million things for a discovery call in other words
a meeting or a call that you're gonna take with somebody for the first time, there's only six things on planet Earth they will ask you, right? This is all you just need to prepare for, right? Six things on planet Earth, right? And this is your living. So like as long as you can memorize six things as an answer, then you're good with any discovery call. Here are the six. What you do. You know what mean? Tell me what you do. You know, that's the first one. The second one is who.
Who do you do it for? You know what mean? Who do you serve? Who does this work best for?
The third one is, tell me how that works. How does it work?
The fourth one is why you instead of nothing or instead of something else? Why? Why you?
Tom Freedman (:The fifth one is how much is this going to cost, right?
And the sixth one would be, what are the next steps? What do we have to do after this? Outside of that, there is Zippo that somebody will ask. All of your answers will be able to tackle.
literally 99 % to 100 % of every single discovery call that you have. So if you actually put on a sheet of paper all six things and say, how do I answer that in a clear, concise and compelling way? And start to script it out and then practice for yourself. Then you can start entering discovery calls with actually a lot more confidence and joy. Why? Because you're prepared.
you already know what you're going to say and you can relax and then actually enjoy it instead of being like tense and trying to figure it out on the fly.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, no, this is good. I like this. I had a simpler version of this, but I think this makes sense. And I think that they're all important, but I think intuitively folks would pick up like one, two or three, right? Tell me. But I think four is the key one, right? Cause this is where it's different. This is it's why you write. And if you've been 25 years in corporate, you've been doing this on the biggest stages with the biggest battles. And I just don't think people spend enough time on that number four.
because I think this ties back up into your, you know, the four C's, right? So this is the theme that if you can get this right and it resonates with your target audience, right? Your business is going to grow quicker than trying to really fight hard, right? I mean, it's just, you're taking friction out of the process if you can, you can do this effectively.
Tom Freedman (:You really are. And I'll go through this if it's okay with you on each one for the importance. Hopefully it really helps the audience. So the first one, the what, is the most important answer. Why? Because...
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Well, we've done studies on it, right? Like 96 % of the first questions asked on a discovery call is, tell me a little bit about what you do, right? So it's going to be your first and foremost. So if you screw that up, the problem is the rest of the conversation probably has no legs. You have to have a good what answer. If you do not have a clear, concise and compelling what answer there's really nothing else left, right? So you got to nail that one.
Brett Trainor (:fair.
Tom Freedman (:The who, this is what I call my desperation answer. If you say something like, well, anybody could be a client of mine. What it shows is that you're lazy or dumb. You know what I mean? And so like when you say something like, can, it doesn't mean that you have to actually pigeonhole yourself. You can mention something like, I can work with a lot of different sizes and types of companies, right? But, but right, my best companies, right?
One that I want to tell you of like, like great stories about include this space. You know what I mean? Right? So that's the desperation answer. The how answer, you're going to have to nail that one. And here's the big one for your audience, Brett. People aren't paying other folks for access to their brain.
Brett Trainor (:Yes.
Tom Freedman (:There are a lot of smart individuals out there. So stop thinking that you're just going to sell your services based on how smart you are or your pedigree from your corporate job. It's not going to work. They're going to pay you for codification, which comes in convenience to the person that says yes to your contract. I'll say it in a different way. They could probably figure out how to do what you do. They're not going to do that because you've already spent so much time.
an effort in doing it right. So when you say how it works, it must be, check out my steps. Here's my process. This is my blueprint. Here's my roadmap. This is my journey. You know what I mean? Because they're going to pay you for the codification, not just like your random intelligence, right?
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:So after you get down through that, you nailed the why. That's your differentiator distinguishing factor. You've got to be able to set yourself apart from everybody else. Not so unique that nobody else on planet Earth can do it, but you need to set yourself apart and let them understand why you instead of somebody else, right?
Brett Trainor (:Can we talk about drilling a little bit? Cause you mentioned something earlier that I flagged in people, especially as a solo business, a lot of the time you're not competing against other vendors or other use. You're competing against do nothing. And you kind of reference that up upfront, right? That why is this better than not doing anything? And most, and I can tell you, I struggled with that early on, right? I mean, well, it's, it's silly why you wouldn't doing nothing's going to cost you money, but unless you're prepared for that question,
Tom Freedman (:That's right.
Brett Trainor (:it gets or knowing that the business owners probably are leading, lending, leaning down that path. Anyway, there's a lot of deals lost because you don't address or think about the do nothing approach. Right. So it's easier if you, for sure they've got budget on spending it on one person. Yep. It's a race, but when you have to convince somebody you're a better alternative than not doing anything, that's, that's a different problem. Right.
Tom Freedman (:It's a totally different problem. And Brett, this is why it's so important to like do your due diligence and get your messaging down ahead of time. I'll like remember we went through Sam, right? Solution, audience and message. But you really can't understand how to answer the question of like why you instead of do nothing. You know what I mean? Unless you understand your audience because that's going to differ.
Brett Trainor (:Right.
Brett Trainor (:Right.
Tom Freedman (:like depending on who you're talking to audience wise, but you can start really doing and seeing trends if you start defining your target audience. It's a repeatable things that happen over and over and over again. And when you answer something in a clear, concise and compelling way, it's got to resonate. Otherwise, right? It's not going to be compelling. You can make it clearer and concise.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:But won't be compelling if you're not using the language that the other person needs to hear.
Brett Trainor (:you
I'm on board. Yeah, makes sense.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, yeah. So we left off on like the why piece, right? We just went over that. The last two pieces, the cost, people stumble on this all the time. Like how much is this gonna cost me? Right? And a lot of solopreneurs, they get crushed because they haven't really thought through their pricing strategies that much.
Brett Trainor (:Yep.
you
you
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:But my recommendation to all solopreneurs is make sure that you have pricing strategies that accomplish three different things. One, for somebody that needs you but can't afford you at your normal rates.
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:So you have to start them low and start to build as we go. That's like literally saying, I want you to start at X dollars a month or something like that. Right. And then as we hit these milestones, we're going to like raise the price up. Does that make sense? The second thing that you need to do is you need to have these people that are, that have plenty of money, right? They're not worried about like the money piece, but they are sincerely.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:like strapped for time. And that is how do I structure it in a way that I'm going to get paid because I need to do more handholding with this client. It's going to cost me, the solopreneur, more time. Have that package ready. And then your third one is the, the, your, like your standard package, the one that you really want to sell.
It's a good balance of the amount of time, money, and effort that you've got to put into the client and that you're getting paid the money that you want to support the margins necessary to hit your goals.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, makes sense. So maybe I'll bounce how I've explained it to folks and you can critique it for me. And maybe I'll take the approach because that what I'm, what I have learned over, especially well before the escapee, when I still doing the consulting and the fractional, I would, it took me a while, but after I went through the process, there's like, how much does it cost? said, well, I think one, I definitely believe I can help you, right? I've got to, I can solve your problem. And there's a couple of different ways that I can do this. You know, give me 12 hours. Let me document it for you. I'll send it back.
Tom Freedman (:Of course.
Brett Trainor (:And the way I kind of look at that is kind of similar to what you had said, right? There's the low touch, right? Hey, you you and I can work together a couple hours a month. I can be your sounding board. We can start to walk through it on the far end of this side is you really need help. I can come in and take this over for you. Bring me on fractionally or whatever those sentiment. And then the middle is, a little bit more, right? We'll do the strategy, but I'll help you set up and drive the roadmap or whatever it is. And historically I found they go to that middle one.
Tom Freedman (:Hmm.
Brett Trainor (:Right. They don't want to go too far. They know they need a little more help than just the advisory. But even if you get the low end one, it's not a ton of hours for you, but it's good money, right? That you can start stacking some of those, smaller deals. that's, that's kind of.
Tom Freedman (:Or the other part of this, Brett, is this. Like in the beginning, I did the just the low touch approach. In other words, like if you can't afford me now, it's okay. Like I have a more affordable offer. It's just, it's gonna take longer because we won't be meeting as frequently or whatever it may be. But I've actually adapted over time to a new model where it's...
Brett Trainor (:Right, right.
Tom Freedman (:I'm going to start you at something that is comfortable and responsible financially for you, right? But it's not comfortable and financially responsible for me. I'm still going to give you, right? Like my, my undivided attention, you know what I mean? And I want to help you grow. But what I'm going to say is this once I can justify paying you paying more, like we have an agreement that you say,
Brett Trainor (:Yeah.
Tom Freedman (:we are going to increase that price. So it's an acknowledgement and that gives a green light for both people to have skin in the game and say, let's go ahead and give this an all out, like an all out approach. The problem with just saying like, I'm going to give you less for less is sometimes it works out. But a lot of times what I've found, Brett is this, they don't get the results because of it.
Brett Trainor (:Okay.
Tom Freedman (:and then blame you, which damages your brand. You end up losing clients for lesser money in the first place and it really doesn't work out. But when you do a progressive or a performance contract that starts lower but allows both parties to benefit, works really well.
Brett Trainor (:that makes a ton of sense and it kind of ties back to what I preach a lot is this, you know, unlike corporate, some other people say, well, it's contract work. I'm like, well, no, the idea that you're taking this is more of a partnership with these businesses and not a transaction, right? You don't want to think of this as a transaction. So your approach actually makes total sense and say, hey, I'm giving up a little bit just to prove that one, I can deliver the value and two, right, it gives you an out.
you don't see they didn't see the value you're not going to continue to waste time but it builds the on ramp to a longer engagement so no I like that I like that
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the last thing, Brett, that we had was so that we did the all the way down except for the last one, which was the steps, right? And the steps come down to this. don't, I know this seems really simple, but you really need to think this through. When somebody says something like, look, I think I'm interested here. Like, what are the next steps?
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:you'd be surprised at how many people don't know what to say. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta think it through. Like, it's gotta be like, I really appreciate that interest. Look, the steps are really simple. We're gonna set up another meeting for next week. We're gonna go over the scope so that you and I see eye to eye. We'll go through some pricing options that may work.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Freedman (:Right? I'll send over an agreement with a few options that could make sense. If you find something that works, send it on over. We'll onboard you and get started tomorrow. Right? But if you don't have that rehearsed, it comes out as like, well, you know, like, what would you like to do? Do you want to go like next? You want to meet again next week and talk about this a little bit more? Or I'm going to send you over a proposal. A proposal on what?
You don't even know what you're sending yet. You know what I mean? So like this steps thing is really important of what I call bridging. You must make it clear on how you're going to bridge into the next step.
Brett Trainor (:Thanks
Brett Trainor (:Yes, and it ties back to your earlier theme of the consistency, right? Because if you fumble with the steps and that plants the seeds of doubt that maybe you haven't done this before or done enough of it. just again, clarity and consistency, I think is the theme you're definitely preaching. But I think it ties into this part, especially, right?
Tom Freedman (:Of course. Yeah. You know, the end thing, Brett, that I would want like anybody to walk away with is just this, right? Like, it's not as complex as you think, right? Like people are only going to ask you six questions, right? So like, it's not like trying to memorize a million things. But I cannot say this enough. If you are a corporate escapee, starting your own business, thinking about owning your own business or whatever, right, you're already in business.
Brett Trainor (:you
you
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:you
Tom Freedman (:The number one most powerful piece that you have for your business is your message. Think it clear. Spend some time. If you've got to go take a long weekend and literally like lock yourself into a cabin and like go over it and come out of the weekend with clear vision of exactly how you're going to present yourself, do it.
because it is literally your entire growth engine is revolved around what you say and how you present it.
Brett Trainor (:So true. And again, I should have met you before I escaped or right after I escaped you would have saved me a ton of time because trial and error does work. But man, this is the whole point of this podcast. And what we're doing with the escapee is how to save you the learning curves or at least shorten the learning curves that we've learned from, right. That the previous mistakes and if there's frameworks and tools that make sense to me, this is a hundred percent a no brainer, right. As, as you think as foundationally.
to do this and obviously tweak and grow and you can get more sophisticated but as you're looking to get started I would definitely highly recommend you know following exactly what you just outlined because you're gonna be light years ahead than the person that's not.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, yeah. And you know, for anybody that's starting their own business, depending on like what spot you're in financially, some people have like $0, like, and they literally need us to work tomorrow. And other people have built up bank accounts that they have a little bit of runway. But no matter what, everybody that I talked to is going to run out of money at some point, right? Like, so like you don't have as much time to waste as you think.
What you need to do is get in front of people as fast as humanly possible and start a be testing your message as quick as you can and make sure that that is I mean just tested proven So at least you have that then it just comes down to getting in front of enough people To close deals so that you can get some money through the doors and the business is okay, but if your message is off
Not only is it extremely stressful, but it's almost like impossible to get a client because you can get in front of as many people as you possibly want on planet Earth. But if your message is terrible, nobody is going to take you up on your offer unless you do like something like give it away for free or you know what I mean? Something like that.
Brett Trainor (:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know we're running tight on time and maybe we do a second part of this if there's, because I think we've touched on them. You got to get this part right. But then you kind of touched on the next part that escapees struggle with is how do I get in front of the right people, right? Who in part of, think where you go deeper in that area. So.
Like I said, maybe we break this into two and if you're up for it, maybe we have you come back for a part two and we go deeper into how do I get in front of the right people? Unless you can tell me that's a five minute session that we can dive in.
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, no, no, it would be a full discussion. I'd be more than welcome to come back and I appreciate the invite. So we can certainly do that. There's also the prequel to it as well. And that is you got to get your model, your business model down pat. I unfortunately see so many solopreneurs try to work their tail off for selling these clients.
but based on how they're delivering the solution, they'll never create something that's successful or even if it is quote unquote successful, it will be something that they will absolutely hate. It will be a business that owns them. So your modeling before you just get out there and start selling stuff really needs to be crystal.
Brett Trainor (:And again, there's no reason you can't change it over time if you realize that's not what you like. I mean, I'm a living example of that. So, yeah, no, think that's exactly, there's no laws or rules that you can't change. I wouldn't recommend doing it just willy nilly and you your flavor of the week because you're not going to get the traction. But you know, again, my, my journey is a perfect example of what you're talking about from solo consulting to fractional. And I figured out how to monetize.
Tom Freedman (:That's the beauty of being a solo, you know? Yeah.
Brett Trainor (:you know, multiple different business models ultimately led me down a path to the escapee that wasn't even on the radar two years ago. Now this is full time. I think, yeah, yeah, I've definitely, I'm going to take you up or I put you on the spot, but we'll get you to come back for part two because I think this is such an important piece. And if you can get these two foundational areas, right. It's going to give you the best chance, not only of success, cause I think people can figure it out, but minimize that.
Tom Freedman (:Sure.
Brett Trainor (:path to where you're trying to get to, right? Because at end of the day, there's no need to make all the mistakes we've all made and learn from others. It's one of the mottos. So awesome. All right. Well, Tom, thank you for the time on part one here. And I mean, we've professionally teased it. So I will make sure we get you on as soon as your schedule allows to do the part two. But in the meantime, everybody can work on this aspect. And if you're not
Tom Freedman (:That's the key. Yep. Absolutely.
Tom Freedman (:Cool.
Brett Trainor (:clear and concise with all this, you got some homework. And second, if people do want to connect with you, which I would highly encourage, at least get in front of your contact. What's the best way for folks to connect with you?
Tom Freedman (:Yeah, two best ways. You can email me at tfreedman at defineenterprises.com and I'm sure Brett will send that out. As well as you can also go to LinkedIn, go to my profile there and you can DM me there at any time.
Brett Trainor (:Yep.
you
Brett Trainor (:Awesome, awesome, awesome. Tom, is Haile. I don't say that lightly because I try to learn something from every guest, but you've helped me think through some of the things I need to go refocus on as well just because it fundamentally makes sense.
Tom Freedman (:Well, Brett, this has been an absolute pleasure and an honor to be here. I'm looking forward to part two. again, if anything I can do your way, you know I'm always here for you.
Brett Trainor (:you
Brett Trainor (:Appreciate that. We'll get you back on soon. For now, but I'll have a great rest of your day and we'll catch up with you in the not too distant future.
Tom Freedman (:Likewise.
Brett Trainor (:you
