The LinkedIn Escape Plan: How Joe McKay Left Government and Built a Life in France

Brett Trainor (: 00:01

Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Corporate Escapee Podcast.

Joe McKay (: 00:04

Thank you so much, Brett. I'm really looking forward to talking to you. I must say, just because I know it's a video podcast, so people watching might be wondering, I've got wet hair, I am wearing board shorts and I've got a towel around my waist because I completely forgot, but it is a public holiday where we are in France today. And so I've got about 10 kids from the village in the pool and I just could not resist jumping in with them a little bit before we chatted. So I hope that's okay.

Brett Trainor (: 00:30

I appreciate that, but thanks for making me look bad because we don't have a public holiday. I'm in a pullover. Anyway, maybe for the audience, too, you got the Australian accent going, but you're coming from France. maybe help educate the audience a little bit on your background, why you're in France, Australia, and just a little bit about your escapee journey, because I think it's fascinating.

Joe McKay (: 00:53

for sure.

Joe McKay (: 00:57

Yeah, that's it. So it is, it's really closely wound up in kind of the escape from corporate for me. So my wife is French, which is why we're living here in France. 2022, were, my wife was pregnant with our second, our second child, our son. And we just really had this urge to kind of experience life in France and for her to be surrounded by her family.

throughout the pregnancy and, know, welcome our boy into the world surrounded by her family. and that was honestly one of the big sort of, forks in the road, I guess, for us, one of the things that made us have it, have a serious conversation about, what does work look like and, know, what do we need to do as a family or what can we do as a family to, you know, achieve this, this goal, this dream of, of living in France for a while. and you know, it's something I,

fortuitously randomly studied French in high school and had gotten pretty proficient in French over the years as well. And yeah, this became a real goal of ours to try and live in France. It became pretty clear. I was working in a government role at the time for the, for the state government in Australia. And it became pretty clear that I wasn't going to be able to, I guess, work remotely from France for an Australian government.

Brett Trainor (: 02:22

Any government rule.

Joe McKay (: 02:24

You know, just bureaucracy, time zones, all that kind of thing. but the, yeah, the vision never went away. Like this nagging idea of like, what if we lived in France? we just could not kind of get past that hurdle. And it was a real, it was a really important issue for my wife, especially. So yeah, that's, that was really the, the Genesis, I guess, of the corporate escape. Like I made the decision to, to resign from the government role that I was in. We're very fortunate in that.

he leap. spent nine months in: 2002

ind of back inside throughout: 2024

It was really this location where we are now is one of the main reasons that I went on the escape journey.

Brett Trainor (: 03:53

Awesome. Yeah. And it's funny. You mentioned one of the things that I probably didn't realize that once you get a taste of it, right, that's what people, anybody that's been out for 10 years, you two months, once they get the taste, they're like, I can't go back, right? Once you get a hang of it. And it kind of sounded like me a little bit. Maybe you had a better plan of what you were going to do as your escapee business. Mine was, well, I guess I wasn't consulting. can do consulting and figured it out, but

Did you kind of have a vision when you were heading to France or did you get to France and say, Hey, now I'm going to figure it out. What was, what was that process like?

Joe McKay (: 04:31

Yeah. So look, I managed to organize a two month, consulting marketing consulting contract, on the way out basically to sort of essentially fund the trip. Like we, we saw this as an extended holiday the first time around, like a nine month, nine month stint in France. And if I, figured if I could kind of do a two month consulting gig, that would pretty much, you know, get us some flights. And then I mentioned accommodation was, was at no cost. we could sort of survive then.

for the rest of the year with that project in mind. that was kind of as far as the plan went at that stage, although I did end up going in-house for 12 months at that agency or the company, sorry, that I consulted to. So that was the day job on the way back home when kind of maternity leave was, was running out. and yeah, I guess we were starting to run out of funds and needed to figure out what, what the longer term plan would be. But what I found after that,

two month consulting experience, and then with, know, six to seven months of just time on my hands in between nappies and bottles and all those things, just welcoming our son into the world, experienced just an overflow of ideas and, and, inspiration really that I kind of had to get out. so LinkedIn became the, the place that I started to show up more consistently and started to discover other people, know, this idea of,

I discovered at some point in: 2022

Really, that was the beginning of what's now. I consider myself completely unemployable at this point.

Brett Trainor (: 06:32

I just had that TikTok the other day talking about unemployables and why it's not necessarily a bad thing. yeah, a lot of people that's resonating with. And again, I think that's the beauty of this is that some folks get stuck, and I promise we get into the LinkedIn here before too long, get stuck in the mental gap between what my salary is today.

to being able to generate that revenue and just going from six figures to nothing and then back to six, I get it. It can be, but it's gonna build. And two, if you get let go, you've got zero anyway and zero prospects of doing anything. And I think the other thing people don't realize is once you get started, you can always go back, right? You did that two months, you said, all right, I'll go in house for a year, 12 months, whatever it is, but then you know what? I had my exit strategy planned after that.

I think that's it, it's just the people that do, I mean, I'm oversimplifying it, they do it. Like you said, I'm gonna go do it, I'm experimenting a dog, you know, in the sense of the bone going after it. Those people figure it out, right? It's the ones that kind of think and overanalyze and don't take action that struggle with it they need to get back into corporate where they can, that's a better fit. So anyway, one, congrats on making it two.

let's get into the business. So you were in government to marketing. How did you end up in LinkedIn, specializing in LinkedIn, working with solopreneurs, by the way.

Joe McKay (: 08:05

Yeah. Yeah. So, I had spent kind of three to four years in a sports marketing and sponsorship agency. That's really where I learned a lot of the tools of the trade, I guess. The government role that I was in was with the, essentially the marketing department, the tourism agency for the state of New South Wales, where I was living. kind of related capacity, just a very different context. as I mentioned with, you know, with some headspace and some free time had a lot of ideas bubbling away.

found myself scrolling on LinkedIn a little bit here and there. And then just without like a professional outlet for these ideas and thoughts and just professional ramblings, I found myself starting to write, write some stuff. and then I started kind of posting some of that stuff on LinkedIn. Like LinkedIn just felt like the obvious home for it. what, you know, the types of ideas and thoughts I was having, like I've always been fascinated by business and entrepreneurship and all that kind of thing.

And so, yeah, I gradually started to just post content on LinkedIn a little bit more consistently, more regularly. followed people like Nicholas Cole and Dickie Bush, who, you know, some of the, those very early solopreneurs and all about kind of writing and posting your thoughts on the internet. and it just caught fire. I sort of, I realized I was getting better at it. I had, you know, messages and one specific message I still remember to this day from a

a former client in marketing who'd sent me a message saying that she'd been really enjoying my content and you know, had I ever thought about working in this space before. And at that moment, I really hadn't considered it at all in a serious way. And that sort of, again, just put me on the trail of like, maybe I could do this, you know, more, more seriously. So I reached out to, and one of my biggest beliefs when you're thinking about making the switch or doing something different,

or anything in life really is the people that want to see you win will help you win. And so for me, I, when I had this idea of like, okay, LinkedIn ghost writing as a, as a side hustle at the time, I was just scrolling my LinkedIn network and just seeing who I could reach out to. And I reached out to a former boss who runs a management consultancy offered to write, you know, 10 posts for him. for free, he said, no, you tell me what your price is. And I just made up a price and it was 500 bucks.

Joe McKay (: 10:31

those first 10 posts and you know, that was my first client was just an old boss.

Brett Trainor (: 10:36

the networks. I don't mean to interrupt you, but yeah, think people do even in small don't have big networks. It's surprising what your network's actually up to, what they're doing and how the opportunities are there. So I didn't mean to interrupt you, but it's a good point to reinforce.

Joe McKay (: 10:49

No.

Absolutely. And, know, I think that is, that is the beauty of a tool like LinkedIn, you know, and for many of us, and if you're a corporate SQP, if you're dreaming of corporate escape, there's every chance that your LinkedIn network, even if it's small has, you know, it's, it's inherently linked to your professional career. So there's likely to be some, influential people in the world of business and work at some level in your existing network. And so for me, when I started to share content, like I already had probably a thousand, a thousand contacts on LinkedIn. So it was.

You're never really starting from scratch. And there are people that are going to be in that space that already know you to an extent, if you're, if they're past colleagues and things like that. So there's just a ready-made, I guess, pool of opportunity there. If you're, if you have a half formed idea, if you have no idea at all, it can be a great place to kind of test for signals, and, and reach out to people that, that might be able to help you on your way. So I think it's just such a great place to start. And it just so happened for me as well that.

you the service that I offer in the business that I built, you know, lives and breathes on LinkedIn as well. So, but, but yeah, the people that want to see you in will help you win. And so kind of taking that leap and reaching out to those people that, that know you, know, is a great place to start. you're thinking about escape.

Brett Trainor (: 12:09

Yeah, it's a good point. Again, I thought the other thing that don't think people realize is how much people want to see you succeed. And if you think about job searches, people are generally helpful. And if they know somebody, they'll connect to you. But when you tell them you're starting your own thing, people really want to see you. I'm not sure the psychology behind it, but, you know, I've talked to a lot of people that are joining the collective and they're new and they tell people they're doing their own thing. And they're like, yes, people are really excited for me. So I.

Maybe at some point I'll have to dig into the psychology behind it, but yeah, they're going to be your biggest supporters and it could have been folks you haven't seen or talked to in 10 years, but yet you still have that previous connection. So now I think it's such a good point.

Joe McKay (: 12:53

I actually, so I completely agree with that. And I, but I think one of the things that a lot of people face early on whenever they're looking to share, you know, whether it's a business idea or content or whatever it might be, what I call FOPO, know, fear of, of posting online or fear of other people's opinions. And so for me, when I was just really getting started and thinking about this idea and sharing more regularly, there were two very specific people that I used to work with that I just knew would be there.

thinking kind of laughing at me behind my back, you know, as much as there was a lot of support. Um, and sure enough, you know, I started out and those two people would show up there with some sarcastic comments and things, and they were laughing at me with friends behind my back. And you know what, like that, that lasted a couple of weeks. And then what flowed after that was just support and love and care and, know, and, positivity, you know, and, and

Brett Trainor (: 13:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe McKay (: 13:49

haters are going to hate, guess. you know, we probably, in my experience, most people I talk to have someone in particular whose opinion they're worried about when they're thinking about starting something new.

Brett Trainor (: 14:00

Can I tell you the even worse part is, yes, definitely some of you know, but sometimes it's the people you don't know. And there was, when I just get started on TikTok, know different medium. And again, I was just stream of consciousness. My two minute rant every day, it picked up. There was one guy, like every time in my comments, don't believe him. He's selling you a bunch of crap. It's just negative. I don't even know this guy from Adam, but I'm going to tell you it.

bugged me for a long time until eventually I was able to just, like, I don't care. If he's got nothing better to do, you know, bother me then, you know, have at it. Cause for a while I was explaining myself and I'm like, you know, what am I doing? Right? So I mean, it's, it's, maybe it's easier when you don't know them, but part of when you're getting started doing this, it's a hundred percent. I never even really thought about it until you brought it up, but that's exactly what kind of slowed me down a little bit and made me rethink.

Joe McKay (: 14:41

Yeah, no, actually.

Brett Trainor (: 14:58

and start, do I need to filter what I'm doing? Do I need to explain? And then eventually I got over it. But yeah, think that FOPO, I gotta remember that, is, it's real.

Joe McKay (: 15:10

It is real, you know, it's easy to criticize. It's easy to throw stones. hard to, it's hard to share. It's hard to build stuff, you know? So, yeah, if those people have nothing better to do, that's, that's really on them. You know, that's their problem, not, not ours.

Brett Trainor (: 15:24

and all the people that do support you, because again, you don't always see that, but there's so many more people in the wings, even if they're not vocal about it, that are appreciative and supportive of what you're doing. took a while to learn. So I think it's a really good lesson that if you start posting, just do it. Nobody's going to be judging, or if they are, it doesn't matter if they judge you. But one of the things I found though, from corporate, where you do have to worry about what other people think of you, because that's how you get...

promotions, assignments, all these types of things. So you have to play that game. And once you're free and out, it took a while for me to not worry about it. But now once I'm off of it, I'm like, I don't really worry about any of that stuff anymore, which I used to. So there's a transition period. So if people are new in this and saying, hey, I'm struggling, it just takes a little time, but you'll get there.

Joe McKay (: 16:14

Absolutely.

Brett Trainor (: 16:17

All right, I didn't mean to take you sideways off that one, but rabbit hole number three, but. So, all right, so now you're, you're, you're, starting to post and again, did the business just kind of organically grow or did you figure out, Hey, was it a little bit of like a guide? Not, to say pivots, but you know, it's step here and like, huh, maybe not quite. And then you moved left, right center. it linear or were you kind of scattered? I guess is a better way of asking.

Joe McKay (: 16:19

No, that's all right. No problem at all.

Joe McKay (: 16:44

Yeah. Yeah. So I think one thing that, dawned on me. So I did have a very false start and I started out with, I guess what you would call kind of life coaching, and built a little thing and just, you know, one, one key thing that I learned is just test with your people around you as quickly as you can. So before you kind of go way too far down a certain path, I just get feedback from people that will tell you the truth. And so I had this life coaching sort of thing and, just,

really didn't get any positive signal from a handful of people that I showed it to early. So that I took that as a sign of maybe not the space to be in and then LinkedIn ghost writing. think what really helped me there once I'd once I'd uncovered this and once I, my belief is if you can get, if you can find one client, if you can make, you know, $1 or $500, you know, a small amount, I think you can probably, in most cases, you can build something that's, that's going to be doable.

And I actually think, and especially this idea of corporate escape, you know, there's probably a lot of people sitting there daydreaming about just walking in and just writing the resignation letter and walking out and never coming back. But what I found was the side hustle is actually a real position of strength. So I had the day job, you know, that was paying the bills, that was keeping the family fed. And so this side hustle idea meant that, I wasn't pressured to like,

find the next client and make the next sale and grow, grow, grow. was very much honing my craft, like getting better at what I was doing. and then figuring out, know, who's it, who's the best target audience would be. one of the key parts, particularly in, in kind of the content space that I found and we'd ghost writing that side hustle mindset really helped me was I developed a price point for my offer and it was going to be my weekends and my evenings, you know,

servicing clients. So that price point was, was non-negotiable. Like I wasn't in a race to the bottom of just trying to win work and earn the next dollar. It was very much a, you know, a high ticket offer and it's still a high ticket offer. And I kind of learned over time that rather than, you know, shift my pricing or discount or any of those things, it was much more about finding the right part of the market that's willing to pay at that price point. And again, that was all enabled because I did have a day job because I was

Joe McKay (: 19:10

building this side hustle kind of in stealth mode. So it's a very freeing strong place to be when you don't need, you don't necessarily need the money when you're testing and you're iterating, you're figuring out what's work and what's going to work and what the market is going to value. Keeping your day job and building, you know, on the side is actually a great place to be.

Brett Trainor (: 19:30

It's such a good point because yeah, early on you do take maybe clients that you don't want to take and you have to, especially because again, I went without the plan. So I ended up taking some jobs that I wouldn't. I think one of the things I really, really stressed to newbies or especially things is you just earn that first dollar. right. You break the ice. Once you get comfortable doing it.

then it opens up. So even if you're not super aggressive in your side hustle and building it, if corporate goes sideways, now you at least know, right? You know, you've sold something, you can do it. And it's just a confidence in practice. And I think, yeah, when you're negotiating from position of strength where you don't have to have that, it actually wants clients want to work with you more because you're not saying, Hey, you know, giving them the full core press. It's like, Hey, I think I can help you.

but I wanna make sure it's good fit for everybody and if no worries, and you'll get clients starting to push back on you and say, well, how do we work together? How do we make this happen? So, you know, I probably don't stress enough is I liked the idea, because I was all in on escape. I'm not telling people to quit their job, but I was focused on people that were all in. Now I'm like, if I had hindsight, there's a ton of people, GenX are still stuck in corporate.

that their time is limited, so why not build even if you don't think you could do it? So anyway, I've got more of an emphasis on trying to get people that are still in corporate to do exactly what you're talking about. Get started before you have to.

Joe McKay (: 21:07

Yeah, absolutely. No, I think, um, it also just gets you match fit, I guess. So if the worst does happen in corporate, you know, you, you've just started to switch on that part of your brain, that networking, that potentially selling, you know, delivering a service, all that kind of stuff. You've, you've started to activate those skills. Um, and you're, you're just more prepared for, whatever might, might come your way. So I think that, that idea of, yeah, testing something or, you know,

A minimum viable product or a beta version or a side hustle, whatever you call it, think is just a great little, great little avenue to start rather than just, you know, walking out the, walking out the front door one day and starting. Yeah, exactly.

Brett Trainor (: 21:46

Here I am. I mean, you can make it, people do it. I did it that way. But again, it's not ideal, right? It does create a sense of urgency. And maybe that's a question back to you is, because sometimes I find folks that either they've got severance or they're not laid off yet, but they don't have a sense of urgency creating or building. And I think you've got to attack it. At least that's what I found.

One for me, but then a broader sample of different folks, the ones that are aggressive and have a sense of urgency do better than the ones like, well, I've got six weeks or six months to figure this out. No, you just got to go. I don't know what's your perspective on that.

Joe McKay (: 22:29

Yeah, I agree. mean, I, you know, having tasted some of that, that freedom, I guess earlier and having, you know, found this idea that I could actually, you know, find a client, find someone who's willing to pay me something to do a service for them. I was really, that was the sense of urgency. was like, that's, that's where I want to get to. Having said that there was definitely,

You know, in those early days, it can be quite precarious, you know, and there wasn't heaps of money flowing in through the side hustle. So the day job was, was helpful. Really the tipping point for me was actually being offered a sizable promotion in the day job. So I got, I got pulled aside and, and, you know, offered this, this big promotion to be second in charge of this organization where I was working, you know, to step up and out of, of the marketing function and really, you know, general manager to IC kind of role. And.

That was a moment of reflection where it was kind of like, that would mean like I had to pick one or the other really. And as soon as I kind of realized that, and as soon as I looked, you know, two, three, four years down the road, I realized that there wasn't, there wasn't a choice to be made at all. Like the decision was, was pretty clear. and so that's really what tipped me into, into the sense of urgency. I was fortunate in the sense that I had over that those 12 months, I'd built, built my side hustle up to be.

you know, 70 to 80 % of my, of my salary was kind of being, being generated. So there was, you know, there was a financial safety net to it at that point as well. But that, that external factor of like, okay, here's his promotion. What do you want to do? Are you in or you out kind of thing? That was really my tipping point.

Brett Trainor (: 24:06

Awesome. And are you structured and maybe we can get into what your business is today. Cause we still haven't got into how you can help us with on LinkedIn. We're getting there. promise. Yeah. Are you, would you consider yourself like an agency or, kind of, cause one of the, I mean, you get the fractional leadership, right? Which is the common you've got consulting, which again, fixed fee, fixed time. I'm a big fan of an agency may not be the right word, but expertise as a service.

So are you, where does your model fit? Is it around more the service model?

Joe McKay (: 24:32

you

Joe McKay (: 24:37

Yeah. So we are, and I'm, recently starting to embrace this mindset as an agency founder more so than a solo printer now. So, yes, I've always delivered content as a service as kind of my core offer. LinkedIn ghost writing for, for founders, for executives, looking to build a personal brand. That's what that's always been. It's always been a done for you service. recently, probably for the last six months or so now I've had,

I guess what I call a micro agency. So brought in a part-time account manager to help me with some of the tasks around that and an assistant as well. So it is definitely an agency model in which we are done for you, LinkedIn content service. also have a real passion of mine is coaching other solopreneurs, know, budding solopreneurs who are trying to, who have already made the escape and who are trying to feel more secure about it. That's the other passion of mine.

Brett Trainor (: 25:36

So let's transition. one by the way, could go forever on this. Cause I think it's fascinating to hear other stories, right? Cause I think it just gives people that haven't been and tasted the freedom, you know, an idea of what's out there. So help me with LinkedIn, right? I've got lucky with LinkedIn because of TikTok. Right? I spent a ton of time on LinkedIn and trying to do things and write the content and follow the algorithms.

Joe McKay (: 25:55

Yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 26:02

but it was the success at Antik Talk, me forcing everybody into LinkedIn, right, to kind of validate. So it worked, but I know my LinkedIn, I'm not optimized for LinkedIn, let's put it that way. So what are, if I'm newer to this or you can use me, what are some of your recommendations, first conversations, suggestions for folks just getting started?

Joe McKay (: 26:26

Yeah, look, I think the profile is the most relevant and obvious place to start. And this is especially applicable to people that are still inside corporate. Some context, LinkedIn is the oldest, like longest standing social media platform that we have. started in 2002. So, um, a lot has evolved in the platform since then. And that's what's driving the gaps that I see, particularly around the profile.

And the way I would kind of articulate how, LinkedIn has changed and how LinkedIn is today versus where it used to be. remember when I was a kid and mom or dad would take me to the doctor and I would sit in the waiting room there and I would look and on the opposite wall, there'd be this, you know, this display of all these like qualifications and certificates and like bright gold frames and wax stamps from all these institutions. And it was, it was a very impressive space. Like it was quite intimidating. It was this very like, wow, this is impressive.

When I take my kids to the doctor today, it's family photos and it's finger paintings and it's mother's day cards. it's, I don't even know if the, the qualification is like on the wall at all. And so it's, it's a much more inviting space. It's not really an impressive space. It's a much more inviting space. And that's the shift that's happened in LinkedIn. When LinkedIn started.

It was very much about impressing your network. You know, these are my achievements. This is my experience, all my qualifications. LinkedIn today and the way to stand out on LinkedIn today is to invite people into your space. Um, you know, we are, we've never been more educated. We've never been more qualified. are, there are thousands, millions of people out there with the same degrees and great experience. So for me, the

The way in that I'm seeing in the main mindset shift there is to think about how you can invite people into your world more than just trying to be this impressive figure in your, your profile.

Brett Trainor (: 28:28

because people aren't reading it anymore, right? I mean, I think that's, that's been, especially we're talking Gen Xers, right? Been in there 20, 30 years, 40 years, some, And we always just use it as a resume, right? Placeholder for that next job and say, here's the job titles I did. So that transition from, right, from corporate to solo, again, it's one of those mental gaps. It seems like it's this big, but yet it's, it's not as, cause you have,

everything in you, it's just how do you translate it back into, like I said, a more inviting place. I like that way of thinking about it.

Joe McKay (: 29:06

Yeah. And so I guess to get really, cause a lot of people will potentially just be thinking about their LinkedIn profile now and they'll, they'll see that gap and they'll, it'll feel quite impressive and it just feels a bit robotic. so some of the key things that I look for and how you can reframe your profile is just writing in the first person. So instead of, you know, Brett has 20 years experience in ABC, you know, writing in the first person is a great place to start.

simplify that language as much as you can, you know, be easy on the brain. if we're realistic about how and when people are looking at LinkedIn, you know, they are either in that three minute gap when a meeting finishes early, just before the top of the hour, or they're like scrolling in bed five minutes before they fall asleep or they're quite frankly, they're on the toilet. you know, we need to consider the context that the audience is reading our content in and we're all, especially in corporate, we're just bombarded by.

big language and jargon and stuff everywhere. So you can, if you can write at that kind of seventh or eighth grade level, cuddle the jargon. I think that's, that's the other key thing. And you'll, be well on your way to kind of telling more of a story rather than just a slab of text with, you know, buzzwords and jargon and experience, know.

Brett Trainor (: 30:26

super worry. So I'll write kind of stream of consciousness, all my thoughts for the post, and then now AI, which I paid for the upgraded version. So now it's knowing me, it's getting to learn my language. It's so helpful to simplify and take my ramblings to more of here's really what you're trying to say in my tone. And so the people that use AI, I'm sure you've got an opinion on this strictly.

I don't read any of that because you can tell as long as it's coming from me, it's my stories, but it makes me more concise that it's been super helpful, right? And as far as my writing, so again, down to another rabbit hole potentially, but.

Joe McKay (: 31:10

Yeah, absolutely. No, look, I think, AI is, is part of the conversation. You know, it's part of every conversation I have about, about LinkedIn. I think we can see it a mile away. can see the AI slot a mile away. it is much more in that kind of impressive rather than inviting type mold usually, you know, and you'll, you'll, you'll start to read something and you're reading these words that are just a little bit more.

jargon, you're a little bit more complex than they absolutely need to be. There are a bunch of telltale signs. I mean, I use AI absolutely in my workflow for myself and for clients every single day. I think it is probably a whole other conversation on how to use it effectively. My general guiding principle here is yeah, go simple if you can go simple rather than going complex. I'd love to hear from you Brett.

In the community that you're serving and the SQPs that you're working with, like what is, what are you, what's the big question that you're getting asked or the most common thing that people are asking you about when it comes to LinkedIn?

Brett Trainor (: 32:15

It's the basics, right? How often should I be posting?

how long should it be? I do video or right? Do I do the pictures? it the selfies? And so it's, I just think there's a lot of, I don't wanna say one offs. just, how do you get, what are the, back to the 80-20 rule. What is the 20 % I should be doing that gets me 80 % of the benefit from it?

without all of the other LinkedIn gurus out there telling you this is the way to do it. So I think there's just a lot of confusion. One, and then two, again, back to you, you love your perspective on this is, what do we write about? I finally shifted everything to more things I've learned or things that I'm seeing or those types. But before that, it was, wanted to write in long, I wanna solve every problem in one post. And so...

I think those are the two, it's the type of content and just the how, right? What's gonna get me the most benefit, the most returns as I'm getting started, right? Then you can start to experiment and do some other things. So I think those are the two big pillars.

Joe McKay (: 33:20

Mm.

Joe McKay (: 33:32

Yeah. Okay. So I think a really powerful kind of one, two punch or one, two combination for, say it's someone who's, who's in corporate thinking about escaping or they're in the process of escaping.

Get the profile right, you your profile being the shop window of your new venture, or even just your career. if you're still kind of, doing things in stealth mode, but making sure that profile is, you know, inviting rather than impressive and just tells a little bit of your story. Combined with, I actually think content is, is relatively advanced strategy. think the combination with profile is one-to-one outreach, you know, scrolling through.

the feed, but more importantly, scrolling through your current network and just checking out like where, where are people working now? Where are they up to? What are they, what are they doing? And not being afraid to send, you know, 10 messages to old colleagues, to contacts, to people you've come across. you might tell them what you're working on. You might ask them if you could, you know, show it to them. might like, there's, there's a bunch of different ways you could open the conversation, but

Tidying up your profile and making sure that's a really positive reflection, a good strong shop window for you and your brand. And then doing some targeted outreach to people you already know, or maybe people you don't even know yet, but you would like to, that might be decision makers, that might be, you know, your target audience for whatever you're building. I think that can be the, if you're short on time and you're short on ideas, that can be a really good strategy to...

get into conversations. Like ultimately, if you're testing, if you're trying to build something, the more you can find out about the people you might want to serve in conversation, that's going to be your most effective tool. And that's actually going to fuel content.

Brett Trainor (: 35:23

Yeah, it's such a good point too, because I think the thing is, I need a website and I need to do marketing. I'm like, well, exhaust your network first, right? I mean, think you're absolutely right. just goes back to, because people will be generally happy to hear from you. Again, start with the folks that you like or had a good relationship with, and then you'd be surprised how many people are doing something different or have a neighbor that's doing something different that you can connect with. So.

Going back, I've heard different theories on the profile, right? Make it inviting, I love that, it's simple. what's, so if I'm coming from corporate where everything was job title related, now I'm going to try to start connecting with a few. As beauty as a solopreneur, we don't need a ton of clients for this to work. So what is, what are some, maybe just some rules of thumb? And I know everybody's got kind of a different background, but what, you know, what should be using that profile more about?

problems that we solve or business which I don't put words in your mouth. So help me think through that.

Joe McKay (: 36:21

Yeah. Yeah. Look, yeah, look, I think the key thing you want to try and convey is I guess who you help and how you help them. And then you want to, you you definitely want to have a little element of what we would call social proof, you know, the experience or why you're, why and how you're qualified to help people with that problem. but, really getting focused on who you might be trying to serve and what

What problem you're trying to help them solve is, going to be the key thing that starts really with your headline, which is probably the most valuable piece of real estate in the whole thing. You know, it's typically going to be the thing that people see first from you. So I really want to try and call out as quickly as you can in there, who you help and how you help them all that, that core problem that you're solving for your audience. And then beyond that, beyond kind of the, yeah, I guess the, you do, who you do it for and how you.

how you help is a little bit of your own story or why you do it, why you've come to be in this situation and what drives you. That's really around the inviting piece and helping people get to know a little bit more about you and your story.

Brett Trainor (: 37:32

that's it's a I didn't appreciate that as much early as I do now is is the why and people are moved more towards if you're passionate about doing something it's gonna resonate back to inviting people in right just it just again you probably could have helped me three years ago so I was going through this transition think differently about this but yeah it is really about connecting inviting people in getting clear about who you help and it doesn't mean what's your offer

Right? It's just that if they connect with you, they like you, then they're going to figure out if they can work with you. think too often we do it the other way. We're trying to make it a transaction and transactions isn't going to work for what we're pitching for the most. You may get lucky, right place, right time. But I think, yeah, building those relationships because down the road they'll start to pay off. They may not be ready now. You know, the other thing I tell people all the time is the power of the lurkers.

There's people that are following you that you don't know. They never comment, they never like, but all of a they're gonna reach out and wanna work with you and you had no idea that they were even out there. that's, I don't know how you can strategize with it, but just know that even if you're not seeing it, there are people that are connecting with your content and they're out there. So you just gotta play a little bit longer game.

Joe McKay (: 38:51

Absolutely. So I've got two specific strategies to surface the lurkers. The first one is I believe it's worth investing in LinkedIn premium. That allows you to see everyone that's viewed your profile. I think that that feature alone is gold. So if you see someone who's repeatedly checking out your profile, that looks like they may be in a relevant position or someone who might be able to help you or a client, you want to know that information. And from there you can,

Brett Trainor (: 38:56

Nice.

Joe McKay (: 39:20

do some simple one-to-one outreach to that person. I think that's, that's the first strategy. And for the, the true lurker, the lurker that never even looks at your, your profile, but is observing your content. just making sure that every now and then on a, a consistent basis, I would say at least once a month, just sharing a post and this can literally be the same post every single month, but just outlining kind of what we were just talking about. You know, here's what I do. Here's who I help. And if you're interested, here's what you could do next.

giving people that call to action so that if they are lurking, but don't really know what to say or where to start, give them a simple, a simple call to action. Send me a DM if you'd like to learn more or send me, connect with me and I'll send you a copy of my ABC. Like creating that, invitation, that call to action that invites someone into deepen the relationship is a key gap that I see. Like people spend time putting content out there and just expect.

that people out in the world will know, I guess, what to do or where to start, which they often don't. So those would be the two key strategies for the lurkers.

Brett Trainor (: 40:29

Can we dig into the first one a little bit? Because I don't do a good job with, so I do have the premium so I can see who's checking out my profile. But I've yet to do any outreach to those folks, which is probably shame on me. Part of it is I don't know what to say. And again, maybe this is just getting over the fear. So I'm glad you brought this up because what's your recommended strategy? Just say, I noticed you checked out the profile. Anything I can help you with or appreciate it.

how to help me get over that fear of reaching out to these people.

Joe McKay (: 41:02

Yeah, absolutely. And look, this fear is real. And I think that is because we have all experienced what I think is the worst thing that happens on LinkedIn, which is the pitch slap, you know, that unsolicited message. That's just a pitch, just a straight up pitch, you know, with a connection request. so we've all experienced that cringy like sleazy experience and none of us want to be that person. The great thing is the bar is really low to do this in a way that's, that's not awkward or weird.

And you touched on it there. it's this idea of present commonality, the best way to think about this. Let's imagine, so I'll put you on the spot with a, with a scenario here. So imagine that you are going to a wedding. You're going to this wedding by yourself. You arrive a little bit early and you're looking around and you realize that you don't know anyone else that's at this wedding. So you're to go and sit down next to someone that you haven't met before. If you wanted to start up a conversation with, with that person, what kind of question might you ask them to start?

Brett Trainor (: 42:02

Yeah, and most of us aren't comfortable in those situations. Just, I probably would introduce myself. That would be the way I would go versus trying to figure out what the clever question is or some intro. Just, yeah, if I find that easy, I just introduce myself and hopefully break the ice.

Joe McKay (: 42:05

it.

Joe McKay (: 42:09

Mm-hmm.

Joe McKay (: 42:21

Absolutely. Yeah. And look, it is a, you know, it is a potentially awkward situation, but the, the present commonality aspect to this would be like a lot of people would say, or how do you know the bride and groom? something like that. This is also the reason we find ourselves making small talk about the weather, you know, because the sky over our head is the thing that we have in common. This is present commonality. So what that looks like on LinkedIn is exactly what you said earlier. let's say they viewed your profile. It would just be.

Brett Trainor (: 42:31

yeah, that would make more sense.

Joe McKay (: 42:50

Hey Brett, thanks for checking out my profile. And then from there, once we've kind of established the present commonality, I just want to hand the microphone over to the person, you know, in a comfortable way. And so for me, that would be, did anything stand out?

That's set the stage for them to respond and share something if they want to, you know, that's not a hundred percent effective. A lot of people, you know, just clicked on the wrong part of the page or there's no reason or whatever. But if they want to, you've, you've made it nice and comfortable for them to respond with something and you can then move the conversation from there.

Brett Trainor (: 43:25

And would you say is there something I can help you with or is that too forward?

Joe McKay (: 43:29

Either or like, think that can work as well. you got to, you got to feel comfortable in what you're doing. I think what I've noticed in a general principle here is the more you try and take things forward, the, guess the lower the conversion rate, so to speak. But if you do like you're obviously a step, you know, if they do respond, then you're, you're going to be a step further ahead of, of kind of figuring out what they need. So

Brett Trainor (: 43:52

Yeah, I like that. again, I think it's never really thought about this because it is an untapped, right? Because I mean, I just looked as we were talking at my people viewed the profile and there's a ton of people that I just don't know. That would make sense, right? Just to on a daily basis go through and say, hey, appreciate you checking anything I can help you with. Because now I am more comfortable with what my offer is around the escapees and if it's somebody in corporate.

I'm comfortable saying, I'm here to help. Whatever you need, happy to have conversation, those types of things without selling, right? Because I think that's where we don't want to go is, can I help you and sell you this? So, and sometimes you're right. I'm guessing people just need that intro open to start the conversation. They want this far as looked at you, but they're hesitant to do the DM or whatever. Huh. All right. I've got some homework to do today. This is good.

Joe McKay (: 44:32

Yep.

Joe McKay (: 44:46

I think, especially in the context of, the corporate escape, for example, I mean, if I was the person that had checked out Brett's profile and I really wanted to help, to get some help with escaping from corporate, you know, what does that first interaction, what, would I say to you first? It's just, where do I start? know, Hey, I'm in this job that I hate. it's a, it's a bridge too far. And so the three minute window closes, people get that next email. They move on with their day. So you actually do them a favor by bridging that gap for them.

Brett Trainor (: 45:01

Yeah.

Joe McKay (: 45:16

and setting the table and kind of giving them a space to share, to share if they want to.

Brett Trainor (: 45:22

Yeah, no, it's so good. I'll keep you updated next time we have you on the podcast. I'll tell you how that strategy worked for me and see if we, I'm sure I'll pick up some new connections and maybe some new, new folks based on it. But yeah, it's just, and it's, I'm also curious, right? Because I see their backgrounds and I think it's interesting, but yet I'm like, I don't want to be that guy that's, I saw you looking at me. So can you, right? But, but I think you, again, we get that not the faux po, but this one's the foe of, I don't know, reaching out.

Joe McKay (: 45:50

Yeah, it's just look it is a slightly awkward city, you know, even arriving at the wedding, you know, it is hard to know in these sort of social situations what to say first, I guess, but just pushing through it and yeah, there's good results on the other side.

Brett Trainor (: 46:05

Awesome, awesome. I want to be super respectful of our time because we've flown by. Was there anything that we didn't cover? I'm seeing maybe down the road we can do a shorter master class type of version where we do focus on LinkedIn. But to wrap up this episode, was there anything we didn't talk about that would be kind of a best practice or recommendation for folks getting started?

Joe McKay (: 46:28

Thank

Yeah. mean, content is probably the other key strategy, like, but that is a big, that is a whole can of worms. we've covered off, yeah. Direct message outreach, like reaching into your network, you know, the people that want to help you win, profile. Yeah. Look, I think those are the key things. Is there maybe one other tactical thing or specific question either you have or that, you know, people in your community have that we could cover?

Brett Trainor (: 46:56

Maybe the big one is what's your perspective on chasing the algorithm? I finally stopped doing it because I don't know if anybody's got the definitive answer and it's made it easier for me to do content every day when I'm not having to think about designing the content for what LinkedIn wants. And maybe it's counterproductive, but I've actually seen more engagement when I'm writing what I want to write about and the way I like to do it versus

the way they're telling, like you have to do carousels. I hate doing carousels. I don't do carousels anymore. Even though if they are the most impressive. So a lot of backwind for you, but what's kind of your thought on that, on the high level content in the algorithm.

Joe McKay (: 47:42

Yeah, look, my overarching guidance here is to play to your strengths. So if you feel comfortable and good on camera or, know, you're someone who like the spoken word is, is the best way, the most effective way for you, for you to communicate, then try video, you know, by all means do that. If you're someone who prefers to, to use the written word and draft and rewrite and edit, you know, lean into, into text.

If you have some more kind of graphic design skills or you're more of a visual person, then maybe carousel is going to be the way. But I think leaning into your, your strengths is going to be more effective than trying to play the algorithm. There's a couple of things that you can avoid doing just to avoid shooting yourself in the foot, I guess. the biggest thing that I see is sharing external links in content.

There might be situations where you're trying to, the external link that you're sharing is like to your own website or to a downloadable or a resource or something like that. And it might make sense for you to share a link. But what I see quite a lot is someone might be sharing their perspective on, on a news article that they've read, for example, and they're taking the link from the news article and they're putting that in the post. Unfortunately, Microsoft and LinkedIn want to keep people on the platform. And so it

will massively kill the reach of any content that's got external links. if you want to share, let's say you read a New York Times article and you want to just share your notes or your thoughts perspective on that article, don't include the article linked in your post because almost no one will see it. You can share your thoughts, reference the article separately. If people really want to, they will find it. So that's one thing I just see people sharing good insights and thoughts, but just shooting themselves in the foot by.

Brett Trainor (: 49:01

Interesting. Okay.

Joe McKay (: 49:26

putting a link in there unnecessarily. As I said, if there's a link to a newsletter that you're writing or a landing page that you're trying to push people to, there might be a reason that you do that. But otherwise, steer clear of the external links would be the key one. But yeah, my overall guidance is just play to your strengths. Don't try and be something that you're not. Don't spend hours filling with a carousel if it's really just not your thing. Stick with, I guess, what you're best at.

Get your reps in. I think that's, that's the other piece of advice. What we say kind of in Australia is today's headlines are tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper and, whatever happens, you know, even the best post in the world is gone in 24 to 48 hours. So, um, let that be a comfort, I guess, and just, just keep, you know, get the reps in, um, keep on honing your craft.

Brett Trainor (: 50:21

It makes sense and you get you definitely do get more comfortable. I'm much more comfortable now than then when I started it and To the other thing that I still I don't think I probably don't do a good job a good enough job is you're right that You can talk about the same things a lot Right because the same people aren't seeing it, but I it just always seems like well can't I just did this post you know six weeks ago I can't do a similar one now, but now I'm like

If I've got core themes and problems that I'm focused on, I talk a lot more about it than I used to, and I still probably don't do it enough, right? Because the world thinks everybody's reading my post every day and they're not.

Joe McKay (: 50:59

So here's the statistic. So six to 8%, that's about the maximum you can expect of your first degree network. About six to 8 % is going to see any given post that you share. you know, and this is actually one of the key, very specific to the corporate SKP audience. I see a lot of people who, let's say they announced their new thing, you know, they've quit their job and they're, launching their consultancy and they'll do that post, like the announce post, the launch post. And they kind of think like job done. Fantastic.

less than 10 % of your network has seen that post. So ideally you like you launch that you post whatever the your update is, you need to try and get that message in market, know, saturate the market with that message as much as you possibly can. because yeah, 90 plus percent of your audience hasn't seen that last post that you did.

Brett Trainor (: 51:53

Now will a repost? Cause that's something I've started to do. Like I'll post it, you know, 7 a.m., 6 a.m., whatever it is. And then later in the afternoon, I'll just do a repost with nothing on there. It seems to get me in front of a few more people. I mean, it's not like it's a net new post, but it seems to improve. Is there any thoughts on that?

Joe McKay (: 52:13

Repost will have very limited reach. I tell most people to just kind of outlaw the repost button. The key thing that the reposting does is signal to LinkedIn that the original post is valuable. So like if multiple people are reposting a piece, that will actually boost the original post more than your repost. So very few people will actually see any content that you repost. I would suggest you're actually even better off.

Brett Trainor (: 52:17

Okay.

Joe McKay (: 52:43

having that exact same post and just scheduling it into post the next week or a few days later. It's going to be a much more effective strategy for reach than.

Brett Trainor (: 52:52

It makes sense. was trying to tell myself, I've got a shortcut, but there are no shortcuts to put in the work. So, well, Joe, thank you so much for your time. Both, I think there was so many insights, both from your journey and the things you learned there, but also with LinkedIn. And again, this is going to be our platform. Like I I got lucky with TikTok, but again, it's still at the core of what I'm doing is LinkedIn. So.

Appreciate the time, we'll have to have you back. From time to time, you can keep us updated on what's going on. And if folks wanna learn more about you, connect with you, maybe work with you, what's the best way for them to track you down, LinkedIn?

Joe McKay (: 53:31

Yeah, of course. I spend way too much time on LinkedIn. So you can definitely find me there. I do do a weekly newsletter. It's called Solo Success School. When you sign up to that, you get basically my end to end playbook on everything LinkedIn that I've learned over the years. So you can get that at joemckay.info. That's J-O-E-M-C-K-A-Y.info. That playbook, honestly, I've spent way too much time on LinkedIn.

and I've just kind of dropped everything that I know into that playbook. So that's a very useful resource for a lot of people listening.

Brett Trainor (: 54:03

Yeah, it's a good tool. I can attest to it. I signed up and we met six weeks ago, eight weeks ago, whatever it was. So yeah, a lot of good information in there. And I'll put all this in the show notes or if not, can search for the Australian guy in France that does LinkedIn and you'll probably be the number one return on that, right?

Joe McKay (: 54:23

That's a pretty specific search, yeah.

Brett Trainor (: 54:26

But it'll work. again, thanks Joe. Appreciate your time and we'll catch up with you in the not too distant future.

Joe McKay (: 54:33

Thank you, Brett. Appreciate it.